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Crist Blog | July 02, 2009
Medication: RSVP
I've been asked to make a speech next month and I'd like your help.
I've been invited to speak at the Jockey Club’s Round Table Conference in Saratoga Aug. 23 about “the way Thoroughbred racing medication issues are perceived by bettors, the public and the media.” In order to collect and present a representative range of viewpoints, I invite readers to share their opinions and recommendations on this thorny topic -- right here in the comment section of this post.
I'm hesitant to frame what I hope will be a lively discussion here by posing any questions at this point. One of the things I'm curious about is which aspects of the entire topic are of your greatest interest or concern. Since I've got 52 days until the speech, perhaps I'll come back to you with some more specific queries before then. For now, I'd just like to see how the discussion begins and where it goes.
If your comments exceed Typepad's capacity to display them all, I'll keep reposting this item with a new comment section as often as necessary. I don't want anyone's contributions to drop off the bottom of this page if we get to 101 responses.
I thank everyone in advance for participating and helping out here. I know many of you feel passionately about this issue, and I appreciate your taking the time to make your voice heard.
Posted by Steven Crist Jul 2, 2009 5:58:22 PM | Permalink
Keywords:
Comments
nick_borg says:
There should be a governing body put into place and they should come down heavy on drug cheats. Depending on the infraction I would suspend a trainer 3 months for his first offense. I would also suspend the horse 3 months. This way the Owners will take some responsibility in giving their horses to suspected drug users. So if the horse is also suspended, the owner can't make money with him. I would make the next offense a 6 month suspension and so on. The 3rd infraction would get a year ban from the industry, trainer and horse!
The bottom line is - we - the people that keep this industry going - the bettors - just want a fair shake. We don't want to see a horse run 6 furlongs in 1:07 4/5 today after not being able to get the distance any faster than 1:11 in his entire career. We all know something is going on. Trainer claims a horse, raises him in class and first time out for new trainer the horse romps to win in a much faster time than he ever showed he had the ability to do. Yeah I know all about certain trainers have the ability to improve horses but let's be realistic. When I see that stuff going on I stay away from betting that race. I am sure many people do the same thing. This has to be hurting the industry too.
I thank Steve Crist for giving us a voice in this matter. We need more industry leaders like him.
Posted by Nick Borg Jul 3, 2009 5:12:51 PM
larry_thiel says:
I want to know what medications the horses are on.
I want to know that trainers who get caught using illegal drugs, will get stiff sentences.
Posted by Larry Thiel Jul 3, 2009 5:03:28 PM
fred_a says:
Drugs which are administered to make a horse perform above its natural capability should of course be banned and penalties should be severe.
But more important, drugs which suppress a medical or physical condition should also be banned since they allow inferior characteristics to be perpetuated & weaken the breed particularly if the horse achieves at a high level.
Posted by Fred A. Jul 3, 2009 4:48:35 PM
phil_gleaves says:
As a passionate advocate of more research into the effects of medication on racehorses I felt compelled to compose my first ever blog.The subject that has caught my attention is Steve Crist's upcoming speech to the "powers that be" in racing at its annual round table.The specific topic I would like to discuss today, however, is the possibly flawed study funded by North American racing groups in conjuction with researchers in Australia and South Africa.Only having the facts that were released to draw any conclusions from I noticed two glaring omissions.The group of horses given lasix were scoped after their races anywhere from 30 to 90 minutes.Many trainers will tell you and I have actually experienced the fact that you can scope a horse 10 minutes after a race and see blood in his trachea(windpipe)and come back one hour later and his trachea will be completely clean.Therefore,the horses that were scoped at 90 minutes and found to be clean could have, in fact, bled after the race.
My other point for immediate discussion is that when a horse is administered lasix 4 hours before a race we are giving him a diuretic so that he will urinate profusely.I can attest to the fact that on numerous occasions I have sat in front of a horse's stall for the 4 hours following the lasix injection and somehorses dont urinate thereby nullifying the action of the lasix.So,my question for the researchers is: were the horses scoped multiple times after performance and was every horse monitored to verify that the diuretic actally worked on the animal? I found it disturbing that the researchers categorically stated that lasix reduces bleeding but could not offer any reason why.I use lasix on my horses to race.I use it because the horse can lose up to 30 pounds of body weight and that can only be a plus for racing (this might be a good time to consider the nonsensical nature of factoring weight into any form of handicapping, but that discussion is for another day) and also because I believe lasix has other effects on racehorses that I am not learned enough to know .I don't use lasix to control bleeding because of the inconsistencies I mentioned and because I believe that it fails to work as much as it succeeds
Posted by phil gleaves Jul 3, 2009 4:26:50 PM
tk_lawless says:
I whole-heartedly agree with MIKE, who said,
"Racing is probably run about 97% within the rules,3% intentional cheating,which is intolerable.Racing is not rampant with illegal drugs, thats a myth.The common suckers holler from people who lose money, owning, training, gambling is illegal drugs."
Racing spends more time, effort & money "policing" itself than all other sports combined.....that's the story that needs to be told.
Would it be nice if there were a National Group running things, sure....but it will never happen, with all the little feifdom's out there, who like their "little bit of power".
Are there cheater's like in any other avenue of life? Sure. Can they all be caught? No.....We try, but we've allowed this issue to become GIGANTIC, to the point, like steroids in Baseball, it has become bigger than the game.
Lastly, I can tell you from a small owner's standpoint, drugs are neccesary.....we don't have the option of culling and choosing another from our 200 two year olds every year. If we get one who can run, we do all we can to help him continue to compete, like any other athelete, and all athelete's have some problems arising from competition. We need to make a CLEAR distinction between drugs & ILLEGAL drugs.
Love your stuff, Steve and thanx for the outlet!
Posted by TK Lawless Jul 3, 2009 3:22:14 PM
mary says:
The first race I ever saw was Riva Ridge in the '72 Kentucky Derby. I've been a devoted (female) fan ever since, but my devotion is seriously waning because of the medication issue.
For one thing, it disgusts me when trainers with current doping violations are given Eclipse awards. There should be zero tolerance: one doping violation and they're out of contention for awards that year.
And the Lasix report issued recently makes me doubt that racing will ever clean up its act. Basically it said that Lasix controls bleeding (big surprise). My opinion is "so what". If a horse is a serious enough bleeder that it must have Lasix then it shouldn't be racing, much less breeding. But this report gives the industry yet another excuse to keep running/breeding the serious bleeders.
Bottom line, no race day meds at all, regardless of reports claiming certain forms of doping are good. And racing needs uniform and strict drug testing rules and severe penalties for violators. Otherwise I believe racing will not only fail to attract new fans, but will turn away the old ones as well.
Posted by Mary Jul 3, 2009 3:09:11 PM
bob says:
first why cant big racing states get together and have uniform medication rules. This would make hadicapping a bit easier with shippers since it would not be an issue since everyone was on the same stuff. 2nd have real sanctions for drug violations, suspend the trainer, horse and owner. This then adds additional incentive for owners to ask questions to trainers if they can't run any horses for a month if their trainer makes a mistake.
Posted by Bob Jul 3, 2009 2:51:11 PM
bernard_downes says:
Steve,
Suggest you make it the shortest speech ever. All medication given to racehorses on or pre raceday is WRONG. No excuses.
Any trainer found guilty of a first offence should receive a lengthy ban from horseracing. For a second offence, a lifetime ban.
Don't listen to any alternative arguments.
Regards - Bernard
Posted by Bernard Downes Jul 3, 2009 2:49:13 PM
norm says:
How are medication issues perceived by the fan?
My answer to the question was going to be as a prime indicator of how poorly racing is run in the states. However, I realized that would be giving racing too much credit; its not run (managed) at all!
As a lifetime fan of over 40 years, who is not an avid bettor, I am repulsed by how racing has deteriorated on all fronts. The point that needs to be made in Saratoga is that while the medication issue is huge; it is only a fragment of what is wrong with racing; someone needs to see and act upon the big picture. Get intelligent passionate racing fans, without a vested interest to the table and develop solutions to improve the multitude of existing problems.
How can a sport, based on competition, have 2 athletes who tower over their peers, with all the charisma anyone could ask for, not find a way to compete against each other? Nothing else need be said..the industry is doomed.
Seize the day; make something good happen
Good luck; its a difficult and complex task given to you; I urge you to consider the focus of your remarks on the larger picture.
Posted by Norm Jul 3, 2009 2:38:14 PM
michael_costello says:
We must address the practice of allowing trainers that are on suspension for a medication violation to simply transfer their horses to another trainer, or in most cases, to their assistant. This takes all the 'teeth' out of handing down a suspension, and has the potential to defraud the betting public.
I will always remember the September 3, 2004, seventh race from Arlington Park where a trainer that appeared to be starting the first two horses of his career - according to the DRF stats at the time - saddled two juvenile first time starters in a MSW race that finished 1-2 at odds of 36-1 and 25-1. The horses were Stillwell and Stray Cat Blues. The exacta returned $718. The ‘trainer’ was Toby Sheets - assistant for Steve Asmussen, who had just begun a 15-day suspension.
Had there been any indication that Asmussen was the true trainer of these horses – or involved with the horses in any way – no one that follows pari-mutuel betting practices anywhere, much less Arlington Park, could convince me those horses wouldn't have been 5-1 or lower. The public was deceived.
Posted by michael_costello Jul 3, 2009 2:31:05 PM
mark says:
I believe nothing significant will ever be done until the stewarts and racetracks hand down much harsher suspenions. If a trainer is found guilty of a drug violation they must disperse their stable to other trainers. This way the owners will think twice before picking a trainer. By giving their horses to known drug violators they are indirectly condoning their actions. The way NYRA handlied the Jeff Mullins incident was a complete disgrace. Also I think the DRF needs to step up. As the premier racing publication they should do some investigating reporting. Did Todd Pletcher ever get fined for the Wait a While Breeders Cup incident? Should'nt the people who bet against Wait A While deserve to know. Just an example. How about publishing trainer violations under the trainer stats in the PP's. This will expose then while making the non cheaters shine.
Posted by Mark Jul 3, 2009 2:17:10 PM
larry_d says:
My feeling is that Lasix or any other performance enhancing drug should be banned through July 1st of a horse's 3 year old season. It is around this point of time in a horse's development that "adulthood" is achieved. This would allow a horse a chance to "grow up" before administering any of these drugs. One only needs to look at the fragility of the species over the past 30 to 40 years to understand the effect of what has been going on with the rules that have been in place during the aforementioned time span.
Posted by Larry D. Jul 3, 2009 2:14:04 PM
louiei says:
Wagering on a horse race is a personal choice. If you don't like what the trainers are doing, go do something else. Look at baseball. Fans know players have taken performance enhancers, but they still keep coming out to the park. Why? Because they enjoy the game and the entertainment. In my opinion, medication isn't the problem with the sport of racing. The problem with racing is that we lack stars and entertainment value ... and that is the result of greed. Why would any 20 something person go hang out at a rat-infested track, pay $15 for parking, $10 to get in, $6 for a racing form, $10 for a clubhouse seat, and $15 for a soda, burger, and fries, when he can go to a casino, park, get in, drink and eat for free, and have constant action. But, imagine if racing actually had stars? Imagine if there actually was a Road to the Derby where 3 yr olds raced more than once or twice and people could actually get interested in the Derby trail? Imagine if the triple crown horses the general public actually started to warm up to didn't retire to stud two races later? Imagine if they went on to race as 5 and 6 year olds? Imagine if there were no synthetic tracks and Jess Jackson did what's best for the sport and raced Rachel in the Breeder's Cup? You don't think people would want to see that? Bottom line, folks, is that medication is not ruining this great sport ... the people who run the business are ruining this sport.
Posted by LouieI Jul 3, 2009 1:43:51 PM
thomas_wright says:
1. The penalties are a complete joke!
2. There should be a 3 strikes and you are out rule. How can anyone condone Biancone still training.
3. Set national standards, not by track or state!
Posted by Thomas Wright Jul 3, 2009 1:39:51 PM
steve says:
I agree with an earlier post that the drug usage caused a PR nightmare for the sport. In a scrambled, bumbling effort to give the appearance that horse racing cared, they told the public, "No it's not drugs.... It's, uh, uh, it's um....it's the dirt tracks! We'll rip them up and install synthetic tracks! Why? Because we love the horses so much!"
Horse racing people know it was drugs and not dirt causing the breakdowns. Just look at drug-free Japan's record with breakdowns- they're virtually non-existent. This charade of a remedy to placate the loud alarmists has not addressed the point at issue- drugs. What it has done however is further alienate and divide fans.
If the faux-remedy of synthetic tracks were never implemented to dupe the alarmists, we'd all be excited to see Zenyatta take on Rachel Alexandra in October.
Posted by Steve Jul 3, 2009 1:35:37 PM
wes_preble says:
To me the medication side of horse racing is the biggest problem to the sport. There is a 4 step plan that if implimented would solve this problem
1) Make a nationwide list of medication that is legal don't let eace state decide. Keep it consistant
2) You can't punish the horse but you better punish the trainers consistantly impliment a plan like baseball does 1 positive test and you are suspended for 60 days, 2 test and you are banned for a year, and 3 positive test and you are banned for life. An when I mean banned that means you can not have access to any of the horse tacks in the county.
3) Don't just limit the testing to horses that are running in current races but also include those in training. Do Random testing to all horses in the stall no matter if they are not set to race for months if they are stalled at the track then they are subject to testing
and Finally and most importantly
4) This sport needs a comissioner. This is the only sport in the country that does not have a comissioner. I think the reason that is the case is because of all of the different states laws that govern horse racing. We have got to go beyond that and have a comissioner in place whom the track and horse owners, Trainers, Jockeys, and fans can rely on to make the difficult decisions that need to be made. Until that is done horse racing will be looked at by the general public as second tier sport and many will always look at the outcomes of races always wondering if the outcome was fixed.
Posted by Wes Preble Jul 3, 2009 1:33:38 PM
garym says:
My major concern is with the huge form reversals that happen on a regular basis.The trainers wait until the the odds are high give'em the juice and collect.They are in essence thieves,stealing the bettors money.They have no regard for the horse or the players who make the game possible.
Posted by garym Jul 3, 2009 1:29:20 PM
paul says:
If racing wants to be successful and treated like any other sport, then it must have a list of banned substances just like any other sport. I was told in Germany, you cannot breed a horse that once ran on medication. Sounds good. Is this really all that complicated?
Posted by Paul Jul 3, 2009 1:23:39 PM
jack_ says:
Unfortunately as a bettor I am generally agnostic regarding the medication issues in racing, because with all the data available to us, it is easy for me to identify the "super trainers" and make wagering adjustments. Sometimes it leads to excellent wagering opptys. Though as an owner and breeder, it is devastating to the sport. There isn't a horse shortage but an owner shortage. The two reasons I always hear from peers for departure from the owner ranks, are the bad economics and the widely held view that if you don't have a "super trainer" you are deluding yourself.
Import all the medication rules and regulations of Hong Kong and make the NFL look lenient compared to how we treat medication violations. Don't fall for the argument that it will diminish the field size it will do the opposite.
Posted by Jack Jul 3, 2009 1:08:56 PM
pickle says:
We need required disclosure of medications. And near the top of the list is clenbuterol. This drug is being widely used in some racing jurisdictions and it has a considerable effect on racing performance. Additionally, some states are not testing for clenbuterol properly. Please try to look into this.
Posted by pickle Jul 3, 2009 1:02:35 PM
smith says:
Lets allow everything as long as it's declared. Certain folks would be run out of the industry, and the problem would diminish.
Posted by Smith Jul 3, 2009 12:57:19 PM
prozacjack says:
Dear Steve, and, all due RESPECT to my beloved fellow horse players, what a group of HYPOCRITES, As you sit there and type a letter to Steve, your feeling pretty good , AFTER your Caffeine fix, and your daily BLOOD pressure medication, NOT to mention your CHOLESTEROL PILLS, FOLLOWED, in the evening by a few cocktails, you people got a lot of NERVE talking about drugs. We the horse players have ENOUGH problems to WORRY about. When I bet a horse I ASSUME it's on some kind of "ROCKET FUEL" let it be lassix or GUMMY BEARS, it really doesn't matter. If a trainer wins at a higher rate than the other guys, the PERCEPTION is HE is USING something. This has BEEN going on for the PAST 50 years, how many times has Bobby Frankle been a victim of an investigation? only to find out he can out train 99% of the trainers.The TRAINER should be held ACCOUNTABLE, not the rich ARROGANT owners, who made the vast MAJORITY of their money in "other" businesses, they wouldn't know which end of the horse to feed, at gun point. Let's see, we let the Jockey's use drugs, with a slap on the wrist,( see P. Val) the trainers get away with it, what the hell do you think the Perception by the public is. And above all, ARROGANT race track owners are the real "MORONS" that are destroying this great game of ours, and THEY don't give a DAMN. True change can ONLY happen if the owner of the track cares, or truly understands their customers.We the horse players have to stick together so we can DISAGREE later. I have told my story on this blog before, how ONE person can make a change that, BENEFITS all. When R.D. Hubbard bought Hollywood Park, I wrote him a very TART, to the point letter. Much to my surprise he INVITED me to see him. I asked him to change the FORMAT of the pick-6, that started in the 2nd race EVERYDAY, I said, let a person hit the double BEFORE you ask him to INVEST in your heavily promoted pick-6. He liked that idea and ORDERED the CHANGE on the spot. Owners of race Tracks like R.D. Hubbard, who have a DEEP concern for the common "man in the stand" is EXACTLY what this game is lacking, and until these arrogant, spoon Fed, "Out of touch" owners wake the hell up, this game WILL continue it's UNNECESSARY decline.I urge ALL of you the time to act is NOW. So drink another cup of coffee,pop your pills, but don't just write to Steve' blog, Take time and send a letter to all those Race Track owners, and DON'T worry about what you say, just tell it like it is, WITHOUT us there is NO game. The power is in the Pen.......LOL
Posted by prozacjack Jul 3, 2009 12:11:42 PM
steve_a says:
I could rant and rave about the harm that drugs have done, but I am going to try amnd look at this logically. Fans want to see full cards and healthy horses that they know are not being abused. They also want to see formful performances. Trainers and owners want to try and make money in a sport where the vast majority do not. Racetracks seem more interested in simulcasting... which does not appear to be working as they wouold like. So what to do? Well I see the integrity of the sport as paramount. Having unhealthy and medicated horses coupled with some trainers with unbelieveable statistics has resulted in numerous small fields and 1 to 5 favorites in cheap claiming races. Medications are not the only problem facing racing... but they may soon cause fans to look at the record book the same way they now look at basebasll. In other words, the histrory and the statistics no longer matter. The greats of the past like Man O' War, Dr. Fager, Whirlaway, Secretariat, Affirmed,Forego, etc... sink further down in the records as the number of suspicious stakes winners with sudden form changes grows. I think we can all agree that things are broken when a suspect trainer claims a horse that 4 other trainers have not been able to turn around and makes him a winner with a huge Beyer 3 days after the claim. The NTRA and all the tracks need to coalesce around a plan that eliminates drugs and finds ways to provide better purses for the lower class horses. Let me close with this short note... On Breeders Cup Day 1 last year we went to the Meadowlands to watch the races. We got their ealr and when the TV's came on there were only a couple of TV's showing the Breeders Cup. When we went to alert them they gave us a bunch of excuses about the simulcast and changing channels. Ther biggest day of racing all year and they don't have sufficient TV's focused on the Breeders Cup. Man... Raciongs problems go alot deeper than medications.
Posted by Steve A Jul 3, 2009 11:41:35 AM
art_o says:
Tell them this: perception is everything. A disparate group
as you are to address will see only from their interests.
Snake venom and eight belles.
Do we remember?? The public does.That same public that dashes off to casinos everyday.
Are you listening???
Posted by art o Jul 3, 2009 11:39:02 AM
dave_schabell says:
My perception on the medication issue is that it is manipulative, and used to gain an advantage by some trainers. The big trainers who gain advantages stay one jump ahead of the technology to detect it.
At smaller tracks race day medication is much more important and necessary to the trainers of cheaper racing stock, than those at the bigger tracks with higher quality animals.
Also, I don't think medication violation detection is on a level playing surface. Tracks in West Virginia don't have the resources to run extensive tests like those in New York or California.
Unfortunately in each racing jurisdiction knowing (or perceiving) who the guys are whose horses "wake up" with great regularity does factor into the handicapping scheme of things. Therefore, I guess that we have come to accept cheating as a fact of live in our industry.
I like the suggestion that race day medications be prohibited in graded stakes races. A horse dependent on drugs that needs them to compete at that level, is inferior to one who does not. This would contribute to improving the breed and our champions would have the complete package of talent, ability, and soundness.
Posted by Dave Schabell Jul 3, 2009 11:36:38 AM
fijiking says:
I believe that the bigger problem in racing is one of marketing. It is a great sport,intellectual challenge, and social gambling opportunity. It is true, as some of the posters have said, that cleaning up the game won't matter if there is no audience.
That said, many years ago when I was in school, this from a Psychology professor: "The one less committed to a relationship is the one who controls the relationship." The deans of racing are less committed to our "relationship" within this game than we are. Those of us who love the game for what it could be are frustrated by the lack of caring by those who could affect the changes needed, but we still use the forum Steve has given us to try to help. Bettors and fans who have abandoned the relationship do not read this blog. They are gone. Those of us who love the game (fans and enlightened owners, trainers, officials) will be the subordinate partner until the economic pain is so great that the fractionalized authority in the US comes together to do what is right for the horses and the public. Until then, handicap and manage your money judiciously....or should I say, juice-ishly.
Posted by Fijiking Jul 3, 2009 11:28:05 AM
jerod_dinkin says:
How sad is the state of the game where the presence, absence, or changing of medication becomes a key handicapping factor. Further, it becomes tiresome, not too mention expensive, for horizontal bettors that can't toss horses changing barns to 1st off the claim miracle workers.
This game is hard enough to beat on a regular basis without the player having any sort of confidence of what impact medication(s) can have and to what extent it changes what one hopes is a relatively level playing field. Politics will likely limit the possibility of uniform medication rules nationwide. However, the racing powers that be need to realize consumer confidence is important for those investing their hard earned dollars. In this changing and unparalleled time of economic uncertainty, is it fair to assume handicappers will continue to pump dollars into mutuel pools without a basic level of confidence that the natural ability of the equine athlete isn't compromised by science?
Posted by Jerod Dinkin Jul 3, 2009 11:06:14 AM
john_correnti says:
I grew up in the Boston area and for years went to Suffolk Downs. Where there would be over 20,000 racing fans on a Saturday now on a Saturay it's a ghost town with me at 59 years old one of the youngest people there. A fews years back I asked some of the younger guys who gambled extensively on sports, poker and casino gambling why not horse racing? and their answer was it's fixed isn't it? It was hard for me to argue in favor of racing seeing it was around Eclipse Award time and the two leading trainers for the award was Pletcher and Assmusen who were both out on suspension for drug violations.
Posted by John Correnti Jul 3, 2009 11:02:47 AM
jd says:
...What are the chances of industry groups in Kentucky, New York, Florida and California uniting to back federal legislation giving national oversight for medication and drugs in horse racing to a federal agency with real enforcement authority? (Anybody who thinks anything short of this will do is kidding themselves.) Funded by $20 from every entry at every track, plus 1% of the purse and 1% of the handle -- so that every owner, every trainer, every track and every bettor has an interest in getting it done right.
Can you imagine the state baseball would be in if we were still arguing about steroid use? The time is at hand to come together for the benefit, and perhaps the survival, of the game. If horse racing does not unite to save itself, then a very short generation from now, when there are only a handful of major tracks doing most of the business that is down 50% or more from its heights, we will be asking ourselves how horse racing was lost. And the answer will be that we lost our faith.
Posted by jd Jul 3, 2009 11:01:56 AM
greatbigtogadaddy says:
The first commentator has it perfectly right. Webstat nailed it.
Posted by GreatBigTogaDaddy Jul 3, 2009 10:53:12 AM
bob says:
what is exactly lasix adjunct?what other drugs are added?thank you.
Posted by bob Jul 3, 2009 10:33:54 AM
jlb says:
Heavy penalties, even lifetime suspensions, are the only way to weed out the minority who use illicit drugs. Harness racing has the same problem - after a two-year wait for a decision, a very prominent trainer received a slap on the wrist while a family member has taken over the drugging, I mean training, duties of their far-flung stable.
I think the irony in thoroughbred racing is the precipitous dropoff in the number of annual starts each horse has, compared to 30 years ago. If drugs were eliminated(and I would support a return to hay, oats, and water), this statistic would fall even further.
Posted by JLB Jul 3, 2009 10:31:29 AM
bruce_t says:
There are an increasingly large number of otherwise undistinguished trainers on the NYRA circuit accumulating tremendous "first off the claim" numbers.Many of these numbers are achieved after a very short turn-around time which makes superior training methods doubtful. Naturally, medication is the first thing that comes to mind.
Posted by Bruce T. Jul 3, 2009 10:29:20 AM
steven_elief says:
Medication is a big problem-why can't North American horses race clean as Europeans do? I believe the same is true for Japan, Australia, ...
This whole nightmare will kill horseracing in the long run.
Posted by Steven Elief Jul 3, 2009 10:23:31 AM
derbyfritz says:
when i visit my local race course i see lots of older fans...the future of horse racing depends on attracting younger fans..the ntra & race courses should put forth more of an improved effort with this..give aways..free contests..etc..
Posted by derbyfritz Jul 3, 2009 10:09:28 AM
wabstat says:
Racing fans perception: Many top trainers are cheaters.
Public at large perception: Among other issues, medications used in horse racing amount to animal abuse.
Regardless of the details, dramatic action is needed to combat popular perceptions. National standards, Equine health made top priority, Felony charges for proven cheaters. Much progress could be made if the industry spoke with one voice.
Posted by wabstat Jul 3, 2009 10:01:44 AM
_sudz says:
Jeff Mullins called us all idiots.Jeff Mullins doesn't care about us,and we dont care about him.This is an extremely hard game to win at,very few who play know how to manage money properly and of those very few win.We have to deal with a multitude of racing sufaces,not to mention jockey/trainer intentions.Medication is just another factor that we are not privy to.We can see "first time lasix",but we can't see "first time cone snail venom".Steven,just tell your your audience that from a bettors perspective,apparently we dont care,if we did we would have left a long time ago.Maybe Jeff was right...
Sudz
Posted by Sudz Jul 3, 2009 9:54:13 AM
mike says:
Racing has done an extremely poor job of informing the players/public regarding LEGAL drugs which are liberally use by most outfits. 99% of the players are unaware of the difficulty of "keeping a horse together" which differs from the intentional use of performance enhancing drugs.
Without between race maintenance and use of helpful trained vets using drugs, racing would be almost gone as we know it. At the very least, race meets would be reduced by a minimum of 50% if a true "hay and oats" mentality prevailed.
Racing is probably run about 97% within the rules,3% intentional cheating,which is intolerable.Racing is not rampant with illegal drugs, thats a myth.The common suckers holler from people who lose money, owning, training, gambling is illegal drugs.
A point to be made is the hypocritical nature of the people who run racing from their fifedoms. They do not allow enough money for super testing yet bloviate about illegal drugs.
Posted by MIKE Jul 3, 2009 9:41:19 AM
malcolm says:
As someone who worked in New York during the last great decade of horseracing, we all mourn the day when raceday medication was allowed.It changed the dynamics of the entire sport. We should listen to John Nerud now, as we should have listened then.We had something very special as you had to "cross the Hudson" to prove your worth as said by the master, Woody Stephens.If we can undo this in New York, I beleive we can once again change the way races are viewd here and especilly with the Breeders.If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere.That was the truth when racing was serious. Now we have to look to Dubai and Europe to truly crown REAL champions. You know, like it used to be here.
The only group that can change our cource is the Breeders Cup. Make the Breeders Cup drug-free.They can start the ball rolling.
Posted by Malcolm Jul 3, 2009 9:25:27 AM
neusbaum says:
Steve,
One of the biggest laughs I get related to medications is when the trainer is "suspended". Really,are they suspended??? Come on, they get a 30 day vacation and the assistant who has been doing all the work gets some credit, as he/she gets there name in the program. Does that really correct the problem? Now if the trainers & all horses were suspended for 30 days this may create a situation in which owners take more control and may move horses away from a trainer as the risk of no purse money to an owner will hurt, now that's a threat to the trainer to clean up his act and get in line!
Posted by Neusbaum Jul 3, 2009 9:20:58 AM
satxjq says:
THE USUAL SUSPECTS-
That is what I look for when I do my handicapping anymore.
When I see them with horses in the race I turn the page because it is not horse handicapping, it is "Who has the best drug de jour"?
All meds, adjuncts etc. should be made public in the programs and Form, along with a glossary explaining their use.
Any deviation uncovered in a test should require stiff penalties, even if the trainer/owner combo is a large contributer to the success of that track.
Posted by satxjq Jul 3, 2009 9:16:12 AM
pru says:
Just briefly reading over some posts it is very interesting to see handicappers 1) are concerned aboit the safety of the horses and 2) adapt to follow "medication influenced" stats. I personally would like to see the playing field leveled and the game cleaned up, but cheating will be evident where money is to be made. The number one way to reform "the sport of kings" is to "hit'em where it hurts". Trainers and owners should both be held accountable. Trainers shouldn't be given "a slap on the wrist" for multiple violations nor should they be given a vacation while the operation continues just in another's name. After repeated violations, trainers need to be barred. Owner's also need to penalized with loss of purse money and suspension from running. Finally, two examples. Many have commended Mr. Jackson for being a "true horseman" by allowing Curlin run as a 4 year old, but I ask why would such a horseman employ a trainer with such disregard for following therules. Mr. Wolfson will have the likely favorite with It's A Bird in the Suburban. A win would almost assure this horse a career at stud. Now, I ask given his past performances would you breed to him?
Posted by Pru Jul 3, 2009 9:15:03 AM
wayne80 says:
PS- IF the powers that be insist on race day Lasix and Bute in every day racing, at a minimum they should be banned in Graded Stakes races.
This is very simple to accomplish since the committee that grades these races could simply refuse to Grade any race that allowed Lasix or Bute.
This would mostly remove drug dependent animals from the gene pool over a period of ten years.
Drug dependent horses can go race at VLT parlor/tracks in ungraded $500,000 races if they want, but would not be able to earn Graded Black type.
Graded Black Type would mean something on a pedigree page again.
I would also ban lasix and bute from all two year old races.
There was no need for eight first time starters to debut on Lasix as they did yesterday at Belmont.
There is no way these babies need the stuff but the trainers feel obligated not to be perceived as sacrificing an "advantage" by their owners.
Going forward under my plan a horse would be eligible to be treated with race day lasix only after visibly bleeding during a race, not during a 530am workout or in the spit barn. And they would be placed on the vets list and not allowed to run back for sixty days. This would eliminate the casual use of Lasix.
I still vote for HOW, but IF they must continue to allow raceday meds they should be usued only when truly needed, and never in Graded Stakes or in two year old races.
Posted by Wayne80 Jul 3, 2009 8:40:09 AM
jrzingg says:
Sorry Steve, this discussion should have been done 40 years ago. You can't get rid of bute and lasix, and if you can't live with it then don't bet on the horses. And it seems like that's happing now.
Posted by jrzingg Jul 3, 2009 8:39:28 AM
hb_compton says:
The NTRA should require that
when races are televised, a segment of the broadcast has to be devoted to showing the horses being tested. Show blood samples being taken, explain how they will be tested and tell the fans who will test the samples. Do this EVERY broadcast!
Posted by hb compton Jul 3, 2009 8:35:47 AM
derby_man says:
Interestingly I wrote to TOBA on this subject on Wednesday. Concisely I stated:
I have the means to be an owner, whether its directly or thru a partnership, but I stay on the sidelines because:
1) From what I know, hear, read and perceive the vet bills are ridiculous. Trainers (line of defense) do nothing to stop this.
2) The game is for the breeders, not the owners. If you have a chance go back and read the Bloodhorse and the owners reaction after winning the Stephen Foster. They won the race, who cares. They have a stallion, pop the champagne! Enough said?
3) There is no plan. There is no plan. There is no plan. That's what my friends tell me after the Belmont is run.
And most tracks don't understand customer service. Should I spend $50k to $100k per year where my wife will be treated poorly, or should I (and all my friends that I could ask to get in) go do something else?
Back to the drugs. The fact that the question is being asked clearly states that there is a problem and they are lost in the fog on how to fix it. The way to fix it is by ridding all race-day medications. ZERO tolerance.
Cheers,
Tim Maz
Posted by Derby Man Jul 3, 2009 8:27:18 AM
theo_l_hozer_phd says:
...[O]ur sport -- by its very nature -- is a watering-hole for nitwits and followers. What better proof than these mindless comments that overwhelmingly puppet the PETA line -- an organization without a shard of perspective, nor a scintilla of knowledge, of the realities of sport. Not just ours. Any! The proof, of course, is that a PETH -- the Ethical Treatment of Humans -- would be laughed-off the planet. Can you even fathom a PETH picketing the Super Bowl after Ben Rotheslberger announced at his press conference that he got "shot-up" at halftime for his cracked ribs! Remember that? No one raised an eyebrow. Is there anyone with an IQ above 60 who believes any professional athlete, in any sport, can get thru the rigors of a season without pain killers? Yet right here on these pages, in OUR sport, comes drooling retard after drooling retard making those very demands on the one professional athlete in all of sport whose physiology is more fragile than all others combined: the equine professional athlete. It's so ludicrous ... so ignorant ... it makes me embarrassed for my avocation. That said, you're still 1/9 to go retarded with the rest of these nitwits, and spew the company-line when the spotlight shines. Mark my words ...
Posted by Theo L. Hozer, Ph.D. Jul 3, 2009 8:14:09 AM
patrick_murphy says:
http://www.irishracing.com/v5newsitem?prid=37741
steve here's what you need. British authorities just fined Nicky Hemderson, on of their top trainers 40,000 and banned him having an entry for three months because he was caught using drugs. That affects owners he has, riders everyone -- its the proper level of punishment unlike our slap on the wrist types
Posted by patrick Murphy Jul 3, 2009 8:08:36 AM
dk says:
simple solution - hold trainers & vets accountable for what they are actually doing - criminally fixing an interstate commercial event. You want to cheat you better not get caught. list vets on the programs next to the trainer's name. eliminate bute, these guys are jacking these horses up on the stuff and know to the hour the withdrawl time allowable or somehow know that they will not be tested. we have tests for this, use them. how can all these trainers win at 40+ percent???? it is an insult to the truly great and honest trainers of the game. i refer to this trend of the super trainer as the "Lake Effect" after the guy that ruined mid-atlantic racing. fix it soon or it won't really matter 'cause the game won't be here for the next generation.
Posted by dk Jul 3, 2009 7:05:14 AM
putting_green says:
Steve, a couple of years ago I got an email from Susan Kayne whom I have a casual acquaintance with, regarding her decision to become a breeder with the one intention of being a "hay, oats, and water" person. At that time she had several yearlings for sale. You might contact her regarding this issue and just how her horses might be progressing without the use of any medications. She is one person whom I would trust to do exactly what she says.
Another idea is gaining the thoughts of casual racing fans, of which Saratoga has an abundance. Every racing day, several hundred of these wonderful people take the backstretch tours. It would be very easy to take a couple of minutes to ask these people just how they perceive the sport. You could do this at the clubhouse entrance just before they get on the Tram, or come out to the backstretch and get their opinion before or after they start the tour. For the most part these are people who come once or twice a year, and it might be interesting to see if the perception of cheating is one of the issues that keeps them away.
Posted by putting_green Jul 3, 2009 7:03:06 AM
beerbelly says:
"Unsoundness" in the modern thoroughbred comes from overbreeding to the progeny of MR. PROSPECTOR & NORTHERN DANCER. Remove these two brilliant but unsound influences, sacrifice a little speed & the over-rated influence of steroids will not matter.
The public-at-large needs to be educated about which steroids are performance enhancing (few) as opposed to healing (cooling your heels-licking your wounds between races).
Barbecues celeberated this Independence Day will be full of beef & pork injected with steroids. No problem.
Why the selective apprehension?
Posted by beerbelly Jul 3, 2009 5:44:51 AM
murph says:
Steve: Why didnt you just talk about peace in the middle east. It would be easier.
Along with others I thank you for this blog and for caring.
As with losing weight the answer is so easy yet so hard. We are the only country that does not just say NO!.
The easy part 1. uniform national rules 2. suspensions that are severe, if not life long. 3.vet suspensions.
The public must know that the tracks care about cheating. We can call it many things but CHEATING is what we are talking about. Look at the efforts the NFL and casinos go to in order to have a clean game.
Ask your audience: given the plethora of choices today would you go to a casino that allows( thru lack of enforcement) CHEATING? You will get a unanimous answer, or at leasr you will know who the idiots are.
I too would urge you to invite Barry Irwin to join the fight.
I recently found myself opining that racing, except for a few major tracks, will disappear in our lifetime. Failure to solve this problem will insure that I am unfortunately correct.
Posted by murph Jul 3, 2009 2:06:11 AM
yuwipi says:
As a member of the public and a bettor my personal perception of "thoroughbred racing medication issues" is one of regret and pessimism for the future of this sport in the United States. I have witnessed the widespread proliferation of race day medication since my introduction to our game in 1974. Plenty of academic exercises have been conducted on lasix and butazolidin, there's no reason to rehash them in this comment. It would be pointless since I view the medication issue as a symptom of a sport where human bad actors at every level have been able to indulge their own personal greed and egos at the expense of the equine athletes.
Looking through the July 3rd Racing Form entries for Belmont, Monmouth, Churchill Downs, and Hollywood I find 5 out of 363 horses entered not receiving lasix. We have arrived at this point how? By an eventual industry wide cave in to elements in racing clamoring without end for the increased use of race day medication under the guise of increased field size, leading to increased handle, etc. This revenue stream culminating in the insatiable craw of political hacks and their racing industry patronage appointees around the country. We all know the answer to whether or not we have those increased field sizes, revenue streams, more starts or healthier game. We don't. I feel great sympathy for those that tried to hold out against this tide and finally could not, and for those many people in every avenue of this game that are forced to go along to get along in order not to lose a perceived competitive edge. I do not have a single racing acquaintance that does not feel there is frequent illegal manipulation of performance with drugs.
The few idle thoughts of a first floor grandstand guy who likes a hot dog and a horse race the way I remember them:
1- If a managed retraction of the sport is necessary it needs to be attempted. Fewer racing dates, fewer venues, and maybe fewer foals in the short run. Decrease the strain on the horse population and restore some sense of anticipation to the racing public about an upcoming race meet. The constant push for more is a root cause for industry collapse. Yes, I know this will hurt people who make their living in the sport. It depressed me, but I think it's a key ingredient to the sport's recovery.
2- Movement away from race day medications needs to get underway. It doesn't have to be done overnight. It took us several decades to get here. I've thought for some time that a sliding purse scale for medicated and clean races of the same class would be a good incentive for connections to start the gradual march back to hay, oats and water. As a rough example, if a theoretical MSP goes for a $50k purse, the clean one would move to $65k, the medicated one to $35k. Some incentive to pass on the juice man hitting every horse. Impractical?
Maybe.
3- Drug violation penalties need to be the real deal. Don't want to hear about a trainer being suspended for 6 months or a year for a contaminated straw trace result, and also don't want to see an international dilettante who's fugitive from several racing venues getting a wrist slap. Fair, realistic and punctually enforced.
In the final analysis this sport can go forward doing business as usual. Human expediency can be it's rationale. More revenue, more races, more drugs and more corruption with the horse as the unwitting facilitator. Or the sport can look for a different way of doing business. One where the thoroughbred race horse is served by those it benefits. Steve, there will be plenty of people a hundred times smarter and more experienced than me in your audience. A lot of them know what needs to be done to move this sport in a better direction than the one it now finds itself headed. Here's hoping some good things start to happen.
Many thanks for thinking of us on a topic a central as this and best of luck.
Posted by yuwipi Jul 3, 2009 1:53:08 AM
peewee says:
1 - Uniform med rules at all US tracks./ ban bute
2 - Ban the practice of needles to the joints to get 1-2 more races out of a horse.
3 - don't allow trainers caught juicing to just take a vacation and let the assistant take over, ban the horses in his care from racing until the time is up. This will give the owners something to think on.Current approach is laughable.
Posted by peewee Jul 3, 2009 1:09:42 AM
al says:
The whole issue is overrated. The people who compare medicating horses to baseball players are getting caught up in the whole media hype about human athletes on steroids. As long as the info on medication is available to bettors in the Form there's no reason for everyone to get
his/her shorts in a bunch!
Posted by Al Jul 3, 2009 1:01:38 AM
jlstair says:
I would like to see a ban on all raceday medications, but after removing all the horses that need Lasix or Bute from the racing population, I'm not sure I would want to wager on the small fields.
Banning raceday meds from graded stakes would at least ensure that our best horses are competing on a level playing field with the rest of the world.
Posted by jlstair Jul 3, 2009 12:42:44 AM
patcummings says:
Steve
The rest of the world has trouble taking us seriously when almost every horse is on raceday medication. We are the outliers - and weak ones at that.
Posted by PatCummings Jul 3, 2009 12:37:08 AM
van_savant says:
Mr. Crist;
Who better to answer this question than you? Seriously. Think about it not as the Editor of The Daily Racing Form but rather as a bettor.
I am curious how you consider horses/trainers when constructing your Pick 4 and Pick 6 wagering strategies. How does the current perception/reality affect your selection processes?
Therein lies the answer from a wagering standpoint because the betting public is primarily interested in profit.
As for the media or the "public", the answer to your question is not knowable because of all of the different and competing interests comprised by the tens of millions of people represented in those groups. They all have different primary agendas (separate and distinctly different from the bettors).
This is a tricky assignment, but I may be of assistance to you in your laudable undertaking. Feel free to email anytime at vansavant@thoroughbredink.com
Posted by Van Savant Jul 3, 2009 12:18:02 AM
bill_gannon says:
Read this article about a recent presentation at the HBPA convention and much of your speech will write itself.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/51476/horsemen-chemist-drug-problem-exaggerated
According to the rogue Louisiana vet and the HBPA speaker, the public perception problems with drugs will go away if we simply relax our drug testing so that fewer positives are called. Brilliant. This shows what a huge disconnect exists between horsemen and the fan base/media.
Posted by Bill Gannon Jul 3, 2009 12:05:40 AM
new_jersey_d says:
It appears as though Lasix has been shown to be favorable to horses. I have nothing against it.
I have a concern with bute as well as the term "adjunct medication". Bute is a steriod, plain and simple and should be banned.
I have no idea what is adjunct medication is. It does not sound good. I believe that the public has a right to know what is adjunct medication and exactly what is being administered to horses on race day.
Posted by New Jersey D Jul 2, 2009 11:54:15 PM
tc says:
The lack of harsh consequences has tainted the entire medication issue in horse racing for years. Just go back to the early 80's in NY and trainer Oscar Barrera, I think at one point winning 9 consecutive starts having a horse run and win twice in 3 days, and winning training titles in NY, then all of a sudden he couldnt win at all.
Was he caught and told to stop the doping?,because it wqs never made public, given a heads up by racing officials?, 2 other trainers come to mind over the years, Peter Ferriola and Gasper Moschera. They both all of a sudden stopped winning races and got out of racing, were they also given a pass?. And how about Jeff Mullins at Aqueduct this year giving his horse "air power" in the detention barn,
he gets caught and acts like he did nothing wrong. Well he was "penalized"(yes it does happen) only 7 days, oh and he was able to serve the suspension after the Derby so he could saddle his derby horse**....WHY??????, THE PENALTIES NEED TO BE HARSHER, MUCH HARSHER FOR DOPING OR IT WILL NEVER END!!!!!
**and we all know I want revenge did not run in the derby...is it kharma?
Posted by TC Jul 2, 2009 11:52:50 PM
tony_bada_bing says:
Medication in the equine world, as in the human world, is used to aid health, prevent injury and even enhance performance. The problem is not medication itself, but how it is inappropriately used or precieved as such.
As a bettor medication comes into play because it can't be ignored - it's everywhere. I look hard at Euros coming over who have struggled, but get Lasix for the first time. Usually pays off on the Left Coast turf races.
Posted by Tony Bada Bing Jul 2, 2009 11:38:17 PM
ian_lozada says:
Another vote for hay oats and water. We're sending too much unsoundness to the breeding shed-- no wonder our sport gets so few starts out of it's biggest stars.
If you want people to participate in a gambling event, it behooves you to remove as much appearance of possible impropriety as possible, and Lasix hides enough for other things to slip through.
And if we can't get that, I'll settle for minimum 2 year bans for mess violations. You can't have Asmussen, Pletcher and Dutrow taking an annual vacation anymore.
Posted by Ian Lozada Jul 2, 2009 11:34:48 PM
mack_m says:
Steve,
Just walk to the front of the room and put up a big mirror.
Until someone brings a Rico suit for crocked gambling across state lines nothing will change.
The Jockey Club doesn't want anything done and spends too much money to keep things as they are. What was the outcome of all those big hearing in DC?
Horse racing is the only sport allowed to wager across state lines legal. If the plug was pulled on that exemption things would change. How much does the Jockey Club pay to keep things as they are? You might ask that question.
Cobraman Biancone is banned from every country in the world and now trains in Cali; that tells you all you need to know about how bad the Jockey Club wants change.
Good luck. Watch your back....
Posted by mack m Jul 2, 2009 11:24:13 PM
marty_ says:
1. At the top level, most US-trained horses aren't competitive globally because they can't race on medication.
2. At lower levels, US-trained horses break down more, compared to other countries, turning novice fans off.
3. At all levels, vet bills raise ownership costs in the US.
What then, about medication, is good for the racing business (let alone for the horses)?
Posted by marty Jul 2, 2009 11:15:00 PM
pippen0707 says:
Steve,
like posters have already said, my concern is the welfare of the horses. Banning all meds will not pass. so We need a uniform drug policy, florida, new york, ect.. they all need to be under one policy. as far as gambling on the so called 'juicers' we all know who does well with 1st off claims ect. i think stiffer penalties and fines would work with a uniform med policy.
Posted by pippen0707 Jul 2, 2009 11:11:07 PM
dave_s says:
It's ruining the sport
vis a vie baseball.
you will never be able to keep the testing ahead of the cheating! I feel sorry for the truely good trainers!!
Posted by dave s Jul 2, 2009 10:55:01 PM
seth_k says:
Do the right thing already. Do whatever it takes to get back to hay, oats and water. No more suspensions where the trainer takes a few months' vacation and business proceeds as usual under an assistant. A suspension means a suspension.
Posted by Seth K Jul 2, 2009 10:53:28 PM
keyfig says:
While medication is certainly a topic worth discussing as it pertains to wagering, synthetic tracks are as much or more an issue for bettors.
Posted by keyfig Jul 2, 2009 10:48:31 PM
mark_tup says:
Steve
While many of the posts thus far have dealt with the medication issue, I don't think this is at the heart of the issues that horse racing has with regards to its public perception. I am 27 and what horse racing has largely failed to do is cultivate another generation of racing fans. As the U.S. has shifted from a rural horse based agrarian society to an urbanized society, horse racing has been pushed from the forefront of American sports to the back burner. I fee that the reasons for this are many but to name a few:
1. People no longer relate to horses the way they did in generations past. Now most people relate much more to automobiles (NASCAR) than the equine species.
2. The NTRA and Breeder's Cup do little to promote a unified presence in the mainstream media for the sport. Rather, competing localized fiefdoms dominate the landscape and the stars of the game seldom meet one another. If Rachael and Zenyatta do not meet...this is EXHIBIT A of this point.
3. Early retirement for breeding. The stars of the game are whisked off to the shed just as the public becomes enamored with them. We have to find a way, through insurance or some other mechanism to keep the stars in training past 3. The oil rich dynasty of Dubai has not helped this phenomenon.
4. No measurable tracking mechanism or standings for average fans to follow. While there are yardsticks to measure the performance of jockeys, trainers and horses the end of year champions are determined by an arbitrary vote. Thus, there are no objective measures for the casual fan to follow on SportsCenter each week.
Well thats enough for now, but I will continue to post. Racing is broken. Racing is also great and could come back to prominence but it will take major change. I do not believe the industry is ready to accept the level of change necessary at this time.
Posted by Mark (tup) Jul 2, 2009 10:38:48 PM
rcw says:
Remember nasal strips??? I'm laughing so hard right now. My perspective is a simple one: No meds at all - or, anything goes, but full public disclosure of the medication given for training and on race day. Trainers choose your poison. Either tell everyone your secret or use nothing. Ban for life for any infraction, penalty to the owner equal to double the purse value.
Posted by RCW Jul 2, 2009 10:37:38 PM
wayne80 says:
How is medication perceived by bettors?
Similar to steroids and other supplements in other sports, most gamblers I know, and I know a lot of them, believe that the vast majority of horses are "juiced" and that management looks the other way.
They believe the "penalties" are purely slaps on the wrist, except in the rare case that the track wants to run someone out of town, usually a shooting star from nowhere drawing too much attention.
If you ask most gamblers, they believe the big successful barns are all juicing and the tracks just look the other way because they are in bed with those trainers.
The solution is quite simple actually, strict penalties ruthlessly enforced equally against every trainer regardless of status.
Three strikes and you are out no exceptions.
And when the trainer gets suspended all horses in his care do not run for the entire period of that suspension, unless permanently transferred to another 110% unrelated barn, never to return to the guilty trainer.
Only then will gamblers again trust the game they love.
As for allowable meds, the first choice of all would be HOW, of course.
Racing flourished without lasix for many years, and the alleged benefit of increased field size has never materialized.
Posted by Wayne80 Jul 2, 2009 10:34:21 PM
woodridgephil says:
Steve, I know there are cheaters, but for the most part everytime someone loses a race its just sour grapes if its not meds, its bad jock , didn't try, or someone had better juice. Push for uniform rules state to state. Severe penalties for cheaters. Horses first.
Posted by woodridgephil Jul 2, 2009 10:32:46 PM
johnnie_t says:
The medication doesn't factor into my betting unless I see a second-time maiden starter that is first time lasix. That would get my attention. I definitely think the medication rules are abused during the aqueduct meeting and not at the spring summer belmont-saratoga meets. I think that Mullins trainer situation would never have happened if he was racing that horse at Belmont and definitely not at Saratoga. For him to do it at Aqueduct suggests to me that he thought he could get away with it there and that he never would of tried it at Belmont or Saratoga. And then Aqueduct still lets him race his second horse, I Want Revenge, later in the day.
Posted by Johnnie t Jul 2, 2009 10:21:21 PM
bob_piette says:
the late oscar berera could claim a horse in the mid 1980's for 15- 18 thou claiming and run 3 days later for nw1 and win and pay $4. three days later he'd run nw2 and pay $4. then he'd go to 50th,win and all the way down to 15thou again. if somebody claimed it you never saw the horse again. he had a horse that won 7 races in the month of april. at aqueduct very good juice
Posted by bob piette Jul 2, 2009 10:15:19 PM
tony_b says:
Hi Steve, thanks for letting us be heard. Masking an injury with drugs is inhumane and the fines should be severe. I think there should be a ban on all race day drugs, let's level the playing field for the fans and for the safety of the horses and jockeys. It's hard enough to show a profit nowadays, but trying to figure out who is juiced adds a real unknown to our handicapping. I would even like a ban on whips, racing needs to present a better image to the general public for it's own survival.
Posted by Tony_B Jul 2, 2009 10:11:48 PM
tr says:
1. It's a travesty and I hope gets cleaned up ASAP. I think it analogous to steroids in baseball.
2. While steroid use in baseball brought in countless fans, it has done horse racing only harm in the PR department- in the long and short term. It didn't exactly bring us the next Secretariat.
3. It resulted in horses breaking down in huge numbers, which then resulted in the proliferation of synthetic tracks as a PR remedy for the unknowing masses. This, and Breeder's Cup races being held there, has only alienated bettors.
So the sport has harmed the casual, outside-looking-in fan, and those fans that love the sport. Worst-It's bad for horses, and is extremely easy to remedy. Why it hasn't been remedied makes me think less of the powers-that-be within the sport.
Posted by T.R. Jul 2, 2009 10:09:49 PM
bert_turner says:
It's an image projection of the sport, similar to what baseball is going through. If you want to draw in new and younger fans, the aspect of cheating (meds) turns a lot of people off. Tighter rules/testing, and uniformity across state lines would go a long way in changing our image.
Posted by Bert Turner Jul 2, 2009 10:01:38 PM
mike_metro says:
Steve, any time I see a horse suddenly 'wake' up I think that it is because of some'juice' the horse has taken. I personally would have it that no meds are allowed as in Europe; why they are so popular here in the USA is a disgrace. The horse doesn't benefit as much as the public would believe, the meds should be eliminated one by one until a healthy race horse is restored for the sport.
Posted by mike metro Jul 2, 2009 9:58:48 PM
drpete says:
As a long time handicapper I do not like the obvious juice trainers, but now as a small time breeder I am totally against meds. How much have drugs affected stakes results that ultimately impact pedigrees, matings and sales results? It is no wonder the breed is getting weaker when mares and stallions which were aided by drugs to achieve their stakes wins produce offspring which will need drugs to succeed as well. I look for successful mares from non-juice trainers and I look for good stallions to mate them to that were also hopefully free from drugs. As an owner of race horses I am NOT against "sports medicine", the supervised, judicious use of legal medications between races to help our athletes recover and prosper. But, nothing on race day (other than Lasix/ Salix). I'm no socialist but the Euro / Dubai rules make sense here!!!
Posted by drpete Jul 2, 2009 9:58:31 PM
ken_jones says:
Mr. Crist, I am somewhat surprised you accepted the invitation to speak, as you clearly strike me as an individual who does not waste his time. The link says you are going to "...share some thoughts on the way thoroughbred racing medication issues are perceived by the bettors, the public, and the media...". My question is: to what end? When someone as prominent, articulate, and dedicated as Barry Irwin cannot get an industry to move, despite numerous attempts, how will a 'round table' discussion where you share others' perceptions make a difference? You have made a difference for bettors throughout your career, from improvements to the PPs to breakage, to general bettor education. My challenge for you is to construct your speech in a way that it becomes a watershed event - one that illicits national mainstream media coverage and becomes a true call to action vs. another "good talk" where a prominent individual communicates to other prominent individuals perceptions that they should already be aware of if they actually belong in the Jockey Club. Otherwise, just spend more time planning your trek to Saratoga. I'll join you there on Travers weekend. See you at Siros.
Posted by Ken Jones Jul 2, 2009 9:58:06 PM
george_quinn says:
Thanks Steve for caring,
As a lifelong fan of this sport, I am always having to defend it to the casual fan as to it's terrible rap as far as all drugs go. I have been following this sport closely for 35 years and I cannot defend it anymore. There are to many Dick Dutrows and Jeff Mullins in this game for me to hold my head up. So I guess my question to them would be. How will they get the public trust back?
It has completely eroded so the entire industry is starting from scratch. Ronald Reagan came up with just say no. What is the NTRA and all others governing this once great game going to do to get our trust back?
George in Tampa
Posted by george quinn Jul 2, 2009 9:49:20 PM
bearcatbob says:
As mentioned above, very similar to baseball. Every big performace is met with skepticism, whether its fair or not. The cheaters have brought the non cheaters down with them in that regard.
The one change I would like to see is all horses under the care of the trainer at the time of an infraction not be able to run at all during the trainer's suspension. Even the owners' horses who were not involved in the horse in question. Any horse under the name of the trainer at time of offense, even if transfered before the suspension is handed down, except if the horse was claimed in a race between the time the violation occurred and suspension handed down/served. Dont let the owners transfer the horses to an assistant trainer of the cheater or another trainer. Where is the incentive for owners to not go with someone who cheats if it really doesnt affect the owners if their trainer gets caught cheating? Just like why would the owners of baseball care if players are using performance enhancing drugs as long as people are coming to the games?
Difference is with baseball the biggest issue with performance enhancing drugs is statistics and hall of fame worthiness that baseball purists (ie. nerds) care about. With horseracing its your's mine and everyone else's wagering dollar that is at stake.
Posted by Bearcatbob Jul 2, 2009 9:39:16 PM
joseph_l says:
Ban All race day medications, if that is not possible, have ALL tracks adhere to the same medication rules and procedures. Establish up up to date and properly funded testing labs in each region. Publish the results. Police the barns. No more slaps on the wrist.
Posted by Joseph L. Jul 2, 2009 9:36:14 PM
hud says:
Hay, Oats, and Water! Let's see who can really train a horse and who is just a chemist (or can hire a good chemist)! Also, over time it will restore soundness and physical toughness to the breed.
Posted by hud Jul 2, 2009 9:27:14 PM
ernie_ says:
I would love to see vet stats/vet patterns/vet info listed among the riches of Formulator.
Posted by Ernie Jul 2, 2009 9:15:44 PM
mickyk says:
I work on the backstretch and am a avid racing fan & gambler. First of all, it is my understanding that in Europe the shock wave machine can be used at any time. Since it masks pain for days, that would negate the "England does it without medication" argument.
I believe if you banned all medication, the cheaters would still find meds that couldn't be detected or are not tested for.
As a handicapper, I am extremely frustrated when I am beat by a "juicer". And you can't keep them honest by claiming their horses, because you know they won't run like that for someone on the square.
In summation, I think it is a huge problem and I don't see a solution. I'm very happy that you will articulate our concerns, though. I'm confident you'll present our case well.
Posted by MickyK Jul 2, 2009 9:14:12 PM
ap_mike says:
Steve,
If I could make it simple, someone else already say it - why do we need meds at all? Horses that run in dubai cannot be treated and same in Europe - how come it's not an issue in either place?
Masking injuries is of course a concern and it's sad that we seem to know the trainers that are probably juicing horses - stiffer penalties and fines would be better - hit em where it hurts.....also, too many states with too many different rules - time to have one set of medication rules across the nation
Posted by AP Mike Jul 2, 2009 8:55:48 PM
lower_perk_mike says:
I would like to see the field leveled. No meds- period. If a horse is not sound enough to run, he needs to have some time off to rest. Breeding these animals with all of their ailments can only further weaken the breed. Every year we see the new 2 year olds and pray that they are still racing on the first Saturday in May. Is this realistic? Maybe, with a timeframe and a UNITED horse industry.
Posted by Lower Perk Mike Jul 2, 2009 8:54:04 PM
ken_k says:
I look for medication changes for certain trainers as a factor in my handicapping, probably like most players. However, what I question, and what I always think is a gray area, is around any medications that horses might be given that are not considered relevant - i.e. are any horses treated with something other than Lasix or Bute that does not need to be reported? If so, how does that impact their performance, if at all.
Further - what I think is also important, overlooked, and never reported in the DRF, is the equipment changes different from blinkers or bar shoes. An example is bit changes, which I've read numerous times have been used "after" a horse runs well as the excuse for the improvement. There is so much to this game that makes it difficult anyway, but these factors, for those of us who may not be in the know, make us feel like, at times, we are making uninformed decisions, and therefore just turning our money over to those in the know.
Posted by Ken K Jul 2, 2009 8:45:48 PM
richiebee says:
Steve:
Racing's Problems As I Sees
Them:
1) Failure to consolidate Racing's leadership, which results in a failure to create uniform rules and market a national brand (think NASCAR).
2)Failure to expand/maintain
fan base.
3) Failure to establish TV presence (think Golf/ Tennis Network. TVG/ESPN/NBC/ABC rarely get it right).
4)Too many facilities conducting live racing.
5)Poor management of the breed; dilution of bloodlines.
6) The US economy.
7) Medication issues.
Posted by richiebee Jul 2, 2009 8:26:41 PM
larry says:
As a bettor, medication is just another factor to consider when handicapping. I know to never leave off a Doug ONeil first time claimer. Or a horse that is new to the Dutrow twins.
On the other extreme of not a medication issue, I never leave a Neil Drysdale horse off of my list when he had an older horse at distance especially on turf.
I look for articles on which trainer cheat. I need to know
Posted by Larry Jul 2, 2009 8:02:10 PM
clinton says:
One thing I've always been curious Steve is when did the push to legalize medication begin and why? Most issues I find troubling with medications is when you watch a show such as HBO Real sports and they do a piece on horse racing,(specifically retired horses), they always find an abundance of horses that come to the farms in horrendous conditions that have to nursed back to health. That drugs were used to mask injuries that kept horses running when rest would have been better.
Posted by Clinton Jul 2, 2009 8:01:25 PM
mlnj says:
I'm only sad about the medication issue for the probably deleterious effect it has had on the soundness of the horses that race. From a betting standpoint, whining about who does or does not administer probably imagined concoctions to their charges is just that, whining. There have been trainers who win 20%+ of their starts ever since I started doing this 40+ years ago. You either pay attention, or you don't.
Posted by ml/nj Jul 2, 2009 7:51:46 PM
ban_drugs says:
I see it w/ a red eye. Sorta like baseball . Almost everybody is cheating...
I think if you really have a chance to change things just BAN everything inc/ Bute/Lasix. Just like in Europe / Dubai.You don't see sick horses or lots of breakdowns in Europe and it's not only the surface as proven in America
Impletent barns for race day milkshakes; or use part of the takeout 1% ???? to have a laboratory and make a new rule book w/ heavy fines/suspensions
Posted by BAN DRUGS Jul 2, 2009 7:41:47 PM
ljk says:
To me it's purely an issue of the welfare of the horse.
As a bettor I'm not sure which trainers cheat and which don't, but the data is there for all to see. As an example, it's not so important to know HOW a trainer does extremely well first off a claim, it's only important to know he does.
Testing needs to be stringent and penalties severe... to protect the animals.
Posted by ljk Jul 2, 2009 7:15:19 PM
joe_becherer says:
Steve, let me first say, and I think I can speak for most of us hard core DRF fans that we all look foward to your blog posts and can't wait for the next one. As far as horse doping goes, there was a time as recently as say 2 years ago that we had no clue what was going on. When guys like Cole Norman claimed a horse that never did anything and then 1st time Cole Norman and the figs were 30-40 points higher you had to wonder. Now with the advent of testing for steroids among a host of other things I'm not near as concerned as I once was. With all that being said, I guess there is always the next "new" thing on the horizon for trainers to play with. I guess just like anything else, follow the money and you will find the problem.
Posted by Joe Becherer Jul 2, 2009 6:54:05 PM
jersey_josh says:
Something had to be done with the outside media pressure, the problem is each state has different rules. These rules/regulations/laws need to be uniform. Same as I think late scratch rules should be uniform.
I think that is when everyone will be playing the same game. What is good in one state needs to be good in the other as well. Just a start to a long conversation. Thanks Steve!
Posted by Jersey Josh Jul 2, 2009 6:29:45 PM
ralph_t says:
STEVEN
WE ALL KNOW AS HANDICAPPERS WHEN TO FACTOR IN THE "JUICE MEN". MY MAIN CONCERN WITH THE MEDICATION ISSUE COMES MORE INTO PLAY IN THE LOWER CLAIMING RACES WITH THE RASH OF HORRIFIC BREAKDOWNS. MEDICATIONS TO MASK PAIN SHOULD BE DEALT WITH MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY THAN SOMETHING THAT MAY GIVE A HORSE MORE WIND.
Posted by RALPH T Jul 2, 2009 6:28:08 PM
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About
Steven Crist has been the Publisher and a columnist for Daily Racing Form since 1998. Previously, he covered racing for The New York Times from 1981-1990; was founding editor-in-chief of The Racing Times in 1991-92; and a vice-president of the New York Racing Association from 1994-97. He recently released an instructional DVD titled "Exotic Tickets," and is the
author of several books including "Betting on Myself" and "Exotic Betting."
