November 2009
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Crist Blog | November 07, 2009
BC Saturday Live
2:05 pm: Pounced just got BC Day 2 off to an orderly start, proving clearly best at 2-1 in the Juvenile Turf and becoming the first favorite to win a Cup race this year.
The JT was the start of the first of three pick-4's on today's card; the others are on races 6-9 and 7-10. The Pick-6 runs on races 4-9. Just finished sketching out the $6k play I'll be putting in once for myself and that Capitol OTB in Albany will be putting in a duplicate of on behalf of 30 customers. I'll check the math one more time, punch them into my NYRA Rewards account, then post them here just before the first leg.
Couldn't help laughing as the ABC interviewer in the winner's circle repeatedly addressed winning JT owner Lady Serena Rothschild as simply "Lady." It sounded more like a cabby, or Jerry Lewis, saying "Hey, lady!" than the invocation of a royal title.
3:00 pm: Here we go. Below is the 13-ticket, $6,000 pick-6 play:
It's a pretty conventional ABC play with a few variations.
Tickets 1-3 require that any 2 of the 3 favorites I like -- Goldikova, Mastercraftsman and Conduit -- win. If so, I'm 4x7x8 in the Sprint, Juvenile and Classic.
Tickets 4-6 allow me to beat any two of those three favorites but thin me out elsewhere --2x4x5 rather than 4x7x8 in the other three.
Tickets 7-12 are basic 5A/1C tickets, keeping me on a thin main with one C allowed.
Ticket #13 was a way to round $5992 up to $6000, using the only two horses in the Classic I didn't use somewhere else.
I'll keep the tickets updated, highlighting any winners that happen to come along.
3:20 pm: Oh well. Alive for five. I know, I know, top Beyer in last on Dancing in Silks, and the figs never lie, but I just didn't believe it. I even thought I had confirmation to be skeptical when M One Rifle, beaten just a nose by Dancing in Silks in that big-fig Cal Cup Sprint, returned to finish third in the day's first race, the Damascus Stakes.
So who's your champion sprinter now? Dancing in Silks, off victories in the restricted Pirate's Bounty, the restricted Cal Cup Sprint and this? Zensational for his three Grade 1's? Do we start looking at dirt horses like Fabulous Strike and Carter/Vosburgh winner Kodiak Kowboy? Does 3-for-3 turf sprinter (and Turf Sprint winner) California Flag deserve a look?
3:40 pm: Looks like Dancing in Silks was a lot longer than 25-1 in the early pick-4. Even with $6.80 and $8.80 winners in the first two legs, the smallest $2 pick-4 is $8579 to favored Lookin at Lucky. It's paying $16k to D'Funnybone, $17k to Noble's Promise, and $20k to Aikenite. The biggest payoff is over $280k to William's Kitten.
4:10 pm: Right idea, wrong Euro. Vale of York was twice the price of the other three Europeans in the Juvenile but was the best of them today -- though not necessarily better than Lookin at Lucky, who just missed despite a wide trip from well behind a slow pace. Vale of York came into the race with a record of 2 for 5, having lost all three of his graded stakes tries.
You'd have to say that Lookin at Lucky lost little in defeat and is still the front-runner for the 2-year-old Eclipse. While 20 of the 25 previous Juvenile winners took the title, Lookin at Lucky wouldn't be the first horse to lose the race and still win the title: Dehere (8th to Brocco in 1993) and Easy Goer (2nd to Is It True in 1988) did it. Additionally, Forty Niner in 1987, Maria's Mon in 1995 and Declan's Moon in 2004 all skipped the Juvenile and still won the Eclipse.
Vale of York capped a $71k for $2 pick-4.
4:45 pm: Finally, a true world champion. Goldikova, the best miler on the planet, became the first of last year's winners to succeed in defending her title, mowing down a bearing-out Courageous Cat to beat males in the Mile for the second straight year. The performance may well earn her an Eclipse as the champion grass filly this year since no one has the credentials that Forever Together did last year when she outpolled Goldikova by a vote of 137 to 94. Miesque, who won the Mile in both 1987 and 1988, earned the title both years.
5:30 pm: Another big-fig bomb as 20-1 Furthest Land, whose 106 Beyer Speed Figure winning the Kentucky Cup Classic was the highest by anyone in the field on a synthetic track, ran down Midshipman and held off Ready's Echo to win the Synth Mile.
Anyone else notice a pattern at this Breeders' Cup with 12 of 14 races in the books?
Synth winners: $14.80, $16.80, $8.80, $18.20, $52.60, $63.20, $44.60.
Turf winners: $21.60, $6.60, $6.80, $8.80, $4.80.
Alive 4x5 for a buck in the pick-4 (2-3-5-7/3-4-5-7-10) but it's going to be tough to get it to pay over $6k for $1 to get me out for the pick-6 fiasco.
Speaking of the pick-6, handle was up sharply over last year, from $2.8 to $3.3 million, despite a drop in the guarantee from $3 million to $2 million. The BC Friday pick-6 also was up, from $1.0 to $1.4 million yesterday.
Hard to imagine there are any live tickets that used Dancing in Silks AND Vale of York AND Furthest Land, and the could be paid out for 5-of-6. There's no carryover to tomorrow if no one goes 6 for 6.
There is, however, a $157k carryover at Aqueduct tomorrow.
5:50 pm: I'm usually a big Kenny Mayne fan, and Hank Goldberg's heart is in the race place when it comes to gambling, but their 1-800-HAMMER comedy segment on the ESPN telecast really fell flat. I guess the idea was to make fun of cheesy late-night infomercials, but the net effect was to reinforce the stereotype that horseplayers are desperate and degenerate losers with roughly the same social standing as crackheads.
6:15 pm: Looks like there are four live tickets in the BC pick-6: two to Rip Van Winkle, which would pay $919k each, and one each to Colonel John and Zenyatta for $1.8 million.
Conduit's Turf victory was professional and well-deserved but I can't help feeling that Presious Passion was just as admirable holding second beaten just half a length with his patented open-up/get-caught/fight-back performance. What a cool horse.
Jerry Moss, Zenyatta's owner, couldn't have been cooler himself while refusing to get baited into Horse-of-the-Year mudslinging while being interviewed on ESPN. Asked about Rachel Alexandra, whose name seems to have been virtually forbidden on the ESPN/ABC broadcasts, Moss had nothing but genuinely complimentary things to say about the rival filly, her campaign and her connections.
7:30 pm: What a wonderful victory for Zenyatta, her connections and her fans. It would be nice if we could all bask in it for a while before everyone starts going for the jugular on Horse of the Year debates, but I'm not holding my breath.
Putting that award aside, the Classic almost certainly decided three other titles. Obviously Zenyatta will be the sport's champion older filly or mare again. Gio Ponti probably locked up the older male title with a second in the Classic to go along with his four Grade 1 grass victories. And Summer Bird, who ran fourth, will surely be the champion 3-year-old male off his victories in the Belmont, Travers and JC Gold Cup.
There are still other title situations to consider, handle numbers to be crunched and speed figs to be calculated but it's been a long couple of days. A cocktail is sounding awfully good at the moment.
Posted by Steven Crist Nov 7, 2009 2:05:35 PM | Permalink
Keywords: Breeders' Cup, Ultra Pick Six, Pounced, California Flag, Goldikova, Conduit, Zenyatta
Comments
larry says:
Looks like Horse Of The Year is going to come down to East Coast vs. West Coast... I think both horses are deserving of the honor. You can knock Rachel for ducking the B.C. or you can knock Zenyatta for not racing outside of Calif. Zenyatta loves artificial surfaces, Rachel's owners don't. It's a tough call. It takes a great horse to control the pace. takes a great horse to come from out of the clouds. Tough call.
Posted by Larry Nov 11, 2009 6:55:11 PM
mark says:
This year Rachael beat Mine That Bird and Summer Bird, Zenyatta beat Mine That Bird and Summer Bird. So against older males, Rachael beat "Macho Again", Zenyatta beat Gio Ponti, Twice Over, Rip Van Winkle and Enistein. Zenyatta won at a mile and a quarter, Rachael didn't. If Rachael wins horse of the year, then Zenyatta will retire with a record of 14 starts, 14 wins including a win in the Breeders' Cup Ladies Classic and the Breeders' Cup Classic. Number of Horse of the Year titles: 0
Posted by mark Nov 10, 2009 6:24:05 PM
paul says:
People complain about handicapping synthetic. I played the euros last year and hit the RP
and HTN exacta. This year, I hit the Zeny-GP exacta, but again, who didn't? However,
I also hit the dirt mile exacta for a cool $329. I can handicap any race, anywhere. Bring it on. I can't wait for Churchill, twice, next year.
The last words I said to my
buddy before the BCC was
it is going to take a true
Grade I race to win the race
so I told him I thought
Zenyatta would win or
perhaps SB. They both
showed up in winning tickets.
Posted by Paul Nov 10, 2009 4:34:32 PM
mark says:
This year Rachael beat Mine That Bird and Summer Bird, Zenyatta beat Mine That Bird and Summer Bird. Of the older males, Rachael beat "Macho Again", Zenyatta beat Gio Ponti, Twice Over, Rip Van Winkle and Einstein. Zenyatta has also beat Ginger Punch twice. Zenyatta has ended her career with a 14-0 record that includes wins in the Breeders' Cup Ladies Classic and the Breeders' Cup Classic. Horse of the year titles? 0
Posted by mark Nov 10, 2009 10:09:24 AM
gk_wisc says:
Hey I have been reading all these posts on the scratch of QR and i agree it is an odd situation with now getting the post time favorite, ie. Zenyatta = the winner. Matt says the pick 4 will pays on Z went from 1150 to 750, hmmm not sure I want to know this answer BUT what do you think the Pick six 5/6 did on Z when QR scratched and those people now got the winner with Zen? How much money did it cost US winners on Zenyatta?, Is there any way to see that? the pick six 5/6 was $4822.
Posted by gk_wisc Nov 9, 2009 11:07:39 PM
saratoga_mike says:
I second Don Reed's post on Bailey's ridiculous comments about Rachel "ducking" the tougher of the two races at Saratoga, opting for the Woodward over the Travers.
At the height of his career, I think Bailey was THE best jockey in the country. As for his on-the-fly post-race analysis, I don't think anyone will be throwing out "THE best" anytime soon.
Posted by Saratoga_Mike Nov 9, 2009 7:43:27 PM
hey_tommy_hey_geo_hey_philly says:
Does Zenyatta really deserve Horse of the Year over Rachel Alexandra essentially for a single race in which she defeated top class grass horses, synthetic track specialists, and good dirt horses unaccustomed to the artificial surface?
Had Gio Ponti won the BC Classic, his case for Horse of the Year would have been far stronger than Zenyatta’s, and few people would be seriously arguing that he deserves the award. The same could be said for Summer Bird had he won.
Zenyatta’s performance Saturday was fantastic and her synthetic track career was remarkable, but Horse of the Year is not a lifetime achievement award. Zenyatta is champion older female and champion of the “third” surface, but that’s all.
Rachel Alexandra—by virtue of her dominance within her own division and her historic victories against males in the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward—is clearly deserving of the Eciipse for 2009 Horse of the Year.
Now give us our game back and start contesting championship dirt races over actual dirt.
Posted by hey tommy hey geo hey philly Nov 9, 2009 7:10:28 PM
enzo_the_baker says:
...Rachel Alexandra beat exceptionally weak fields in 2009.
Zenyatta defeated considerably weak company in her first four starts this year as well, until you consider that a filly she toyed with multiple times won the biggest filly & mare race in North America on Friday.
Rachel Alexandra is a phenomenon created mostly by smoke and mirrors, so states the combined accomplishments of runners she defeated in 2009.
Posted by Enzo the Baker Nov 9, 2009 5:48:06 PM
rumbledog says:
gio,
The $1 Pick-4 would have paid $1700 if Gio Ponti had won. I played that Pick-4 the way I usually do - where one single or the other had to win, if they both win I get the $2 payoff. My singles were Goldikova and Conduit. I also had Quality Road on both tickets, so I had it for $4, $3000 altogether. My most profitable Breeder's Cup yet.
Posted by Rumbledog Nov 9, 2009 5:28:52 PM
bernard_downes says:
Of all the hundreds of post Breeders Cup comments I have read on various websites, I have to say the reference to Sea The Stars is the most mystifying. What the hell happened at the BC that warranted the dig at Sea The Stars?
Was it perhaps a reference to the poor performance of Mastercraftsman and Rip Van Winkle? If so, it was misplaced. Sure, some the Euros ran bad, but even allowing for the different distances, Sea The Stars is head and shoulders better than any of the 6 Euro winners.
Regards - Bernard
Posted by Bernard Downes Nov 9, 2009 3:33:24 PM
gio says:
Does anyone have what the Pick 4 will pays were for the Classic? Just curious because I had Gio Ponti, but was not able to watch and would like to know what I was alive to. I know it shouldn't matter now but I'm still curious. Thanks.
Posted by Gio Nov 9, 2009 3:24:29 PM
ctscoots says:
I love it - Rachel is criticized for beating "G-3" horses like Macho Again and Bullsbay but Zenytatta won the deepest BCC in history by beating Colonel John and Richard's Kid. Priceless.
Posted by ctscoots Nov 9, 2009 1:57:49 PM
c says:
Steve,
Curious if you will show the handle figures and dirt/turf/other placing chart for Saturday?
Posted by C Nov 9, 2009 12:29:53 PM
eeebayou says:
I did not have a good gambling weekend. However, I do know that I feel better than one person---David Flores!!
Has the real story ever come out as to why he lost the mount on Zenyatta?
Posted by eeebayou Nov 9, 2009 11:44:50 AM
paul_s says:
Chip Woolley has some good, insightful views on HOY in the Monday New York Post sports section.
Posted by Paul S Nov 9, 2009 10:35:45 AM
tom_mcdonough says:
Anybody who can honestly vote AGAINST either Rachel or Zenyatta has no soul.
Posted by tom mcdonough Nov 9, 2009 9:37:52 AM
matthew says:
1)In regards to cjdstable saying "First pick 4 yesterday: chalk x chalk x all x all -- $117 wager returns $36k. I know this goes against Steve's teachings, but Im just sayin. . ."
C'mon.... did you play it? NO? why not?
Its so easy to say "Oh man look how easy that was to have hit.. if only..." Silly, just silly.
2) I don't want to sound harsh, but if you were not able to figure out the Jockey bet, you shouldn't have played it. Its just like the Kentucky Derby future wagers...bums me out that someone would put money into a wager they didn't understand.
3) "THEY" are not just gonna give HOTY award to someone.. "THEY" are going to vote on it ( I know most everyone knows this, but). So as much as I like the sentiment of 'CO-HORSE OF THE YEAR'.. unless there is a tie with the voting (possible), its going to be the one with the most votes. And again, its funny that those who are in 'favor' of Z, don't really bad mouth RA, but those in favor of RA... make excuses for why Z shouldn't even be considered for HOTY. West Coast vs. East Coast... synthetics vs dirt.. Can't we just all get along?
Posted by Matthew Nov 9, 2009 1:33:26 AM
qev says:
Any person who still thinks that what happens on artificial surfaces is a true reflection of the abilities of ‘dirt’ runners is truly in denial. Just ask Quality Road...he knew.
R.A. should not be penalized for not running on ‘Synthetic-Turf”, just as Tiger Woods would not deserve to be penalized for skipping a major PGA event that was being held on, say, sandy loam “putting was a mutha!”; she is a d.i.r.t. horse and I believe we can all agree that Pro-Ride is not dirt...not even close, just ask Gio Ponti and Twice Over...they know...Henry the Navigator and Raven’s Pass told ‘em.
There is no East Coast bias...there is, however, a dirt over artificial bias....especially when it comes to comparing the merits of dirt (there’s that word again) runners.
Zenyatta is a beast and the way she ‘quickens’ coupled with her undeniable affinity for that very turf-like surface makes her, in my opinion, America’s best missed opportunity to have taken the Arc. I just wonder if her devastating late kick would have been as effective on dirt...I no longer use the phrase real dirt when differentiating between dirt and artificial surfaces because artificial surfaces don’t even resemble ‘fake’ dirt.
Rachel Alexandra beat some of the world’s top dirt runners on dirt. Zenyatta beat some of the world’s top turf horses on t---...on a very turf-like surface. What a conundrum. Rachel did more, in more venues, under more varied conditions and much more difficult circumstances and she did it with aplomb, winning in open lengths in some cases and fast times in all...Okay, conundrum solved.
Finally, I would just like to say that I’m absolutely thrilled that I did not waste my time and, or, money trying to predict the ‘lottery’ that Pro-Ride has reduced maintrack contested Breeders Cup events to...’a man’s chances of winning the lottery are the same whether he buys a ticket or not’---some famous mathematician.
Posted by Qev Nov 9, 2009 1:19:01 AM
ryan says:
...Z faced much better fillies than RA but lets just wipe out those races and move onto the races against the boys. This three year old class was one of the worst in recent memory and its also irrelevant to the discussion because Z beat both Birds just like RA did...
Let's take it easy on this horse of the decade and one of the greatest horses ever talk. Have you guys counted up how many victories against older males these two horses have combined??? Drum roll please..........TWO. I honestly cannot stop laughing when people throw these labels around and then actually look at what these horses have accomplished. I love watching them but everyone needs to get a grip on reality. Curlin won six straight G1 dirt races against older males...That's greatness. Talk to me about Z/RA's greatness if they win more than ONE each. I really cannot believe people are talking greatest ever given these facts. A little caught up in the moment I think.
Posted by Ryan Nov 8, 2009 11:29:57 PM
don_reed says:
From below: "Set up a Future Trifecta bet...1) Ladies Classic & 2) Classic; & 3) BC jockey with most wins... [eliminates the] possibility of a dead-heat result involving 2 or 3 jockeys = small dual/tri-payouts..."
It just occurred to me that if this proposed bet had existed this year -with Shirreffs's horses winning both the Ladies Classic & the Classic - the possibility of two or three jockeys in a dead heat would not have been eliminated.
And for those who cashed your Poly Pony bets yesterday. consider your winnings, "The Wages of Syn."
Posted by Don Reed Nov 8, 2009 11:01:53 PM
ari says:
Hard to believe two females can cause such a stir. I found the older division weak again this year and Zenyatta resembles the undefeated season of Awewsome Again. He had a light campaign and won the classic but didn't get HOY cause he beat up on a weak feild. Zenyatta is the same. None of those horses were at their peak in the classic. Ventura was running harder in defeat then this sorry feild. If Gio Ponti is not just passed it on form he holds on.
Posted by Ari Nov 8, 2009 10:50:45 PM
don_reed says:
Mike Smith was kind enough to join us for a few minutes at our table in a restaurant in Del Mar in 2008. He mentioned how avidly he was looking forward to his next day's ride on Zenyatta. The next day, the Zenyatta legend was born when she went from dead last to first to win, exactly in the same manner we witnessed yesterday. But as good as she looked to Mike on the evening of our chat, & as amazing as she looked to us the next day, it was simply out of the range of the human imagination to foresee that, ultimately, she would be the first female horse to win the BC Classic...
Bailey's post-race comments were typically, flagrantly irrational. After Rachel had won the Woodward, from what I read in the racing press, her connections were generally commended for having placed her in what was considered the tougher of the two races. I can't remember having read a single word about Rachel having "ducked" anyone. Yet, Bailey, immediately after the Classic, stated that Rachel's connections had been strongly criticized for entering RA in the Woodward because the Woodward field was considered inferior to the horses in the Travers.
As Mr. Reagan was fond of saying, "There he goes, again."
HOTY - RA or Z? No opinion. It's good enough for me that in one year, not one, but two fillies were the very best (you would have gotten 50-1, maybe higher, on this prop at the Wynn on November 8th, 2008).
Next Year: Get rid of the pre- & post-BC, non-BC races. Message to management: NOBODY CARES. NO ONE wants to see a Triple A Baseball championship game in a doubleheader with a World Series game.
Steve, your P6 may have been a lost cause, but your tabbing the Classic superfecta box was a thing of beauty. I too am sorry that Twice Over came up Two Short.
BobmToga: Your breakdown of the syn-loving & dirt-preferring horses's results is why this column works so well. Thanks for doing all that hard work, & for presenting it so clearly.
Watching the Yankees win the Series was sort of Old Hat.
Watching a filly win The Classic was a new Zombrero.
Posted by Don Reed Nov 8, 2009 10:10:13 PM
yuwipi says:
My 2 cents:
NY circuit player who always thought Zenyatta a monster. Absolutely not surprised she won the Classic, although I took a flyer on Colonel John. Her connections campaigned her conservatively in 2009, and as a super valuable commodity that's understandable. However, a 4 race body of work doesn't get her HOY in my opinion, which is worth zero I know.
I'm a fan of all the great announcers we're blessed with in this sport, and I just have to think Trevor Denman would like to rephrase his "unbelievable" comment to conclude the Classic. What's unbelievable? A 5-2 favorite and champion doing what she's done every race of her career? Just think he could have sent her off with something better.
Steve, to yourself and all at DRF many thanks for the great product you all have served up to us for this years Breeders Cup. It was over the top!
Closing, I fear that a real schism is developing among the horseplaying population over the track surface issue. It depresses me to see people at each others throats in such a vindictive and vulgar fashion evidenced in some of the comments here. I don't think it bodes well for the long term health of a game already afflicted with numerous crippling liabilities.
Posted by yuwipi Nov 8, 2009 9:47:43 PM
mike says:
Zenyetta is the very best filly of all time? Not exactly, maybe the very best mare of all time, but the best filly tag most certaintly belongs to Rachel or Ruffian. Saying that it is foolish to think Rachel could beat Zenyetta at a mile and a quarter is foolish is foolish in its own right. Who is to say Zenyetta would automatically beat Rachel at a mile and a quarter, as has been said previously, Rachel always gallops out better than her competition, which makes me believe she has more in the tank than shown. Not to mention at a mile and a quarter she would not be put the suicidal fractions that made her look vulnerable in the Woodward.
Posted by Mike Nov 8, 2009 9:31:22 PM
cat_thief says:
Steve, thanks for posting BC 2008 prep race locations and again for Friday. After Music Note could only manage a 3rd, and Muska was 2nd, I tossed all dirt horses: Midship, Summer B, D'Funny. Do the Mosses know that Dubai switched to synth? Maybe after HOY is decided they can bring Z out of retirement for the inaugural race at the new track.
Posted by cat thief Nov 8, 2009 9:26:45 PM
matt says:
Ouch! I got punished for tossing Quality Road in the P4. Will pay to Z was $1151 I think for $1. All those QR backers watered it down to $750! They got it twice if they backed Z as well. What a humbling game.
Posted by matt Nov 8, 2009 9:26:21 PM
stable_girl says:
...In light of the superior quality of the female racers over the last decade...It's time to stop considering the females as anything less than the best of the sport.
Posted by stable girl Nov 8, 2009 9:18:51 PM
george_quinn says:
I think the HOY debate is a great one. It will be the first time in the history of the Eclipse awards that there will be any suspense at all. I love to watch it just for all the film clips but most years it is unwatchable from an award show perspective. This year, suspense and drum roll for HOY. Good Stuff. Thanks to both girls.
George in Tampa
Posted by george quinn Nov 8, 2009 9:02:29 PM
_kyracer says:
Anybody who thinks one win vs. colts makes Zenyatta the best filly (mare) of all time is living in fantasy land.
Posted by KyRacer Nov 8, 2009 8:56:25 PM
wayne80 says:
"Where else do you go?" Shirreffs said Sunday. "Fourteen for 14 and top it off with a win in the Breeders' Cup Classic."
Where else do you go? Dubai World Cup(synth) for starters, followed by Saratoga and Churchill Downs, assuming she is sound of course.
How about trying for the all time winning streak?
Or a race against Rachel on the dirt? The Personal Ensign would be particularly appropriate.
Or facing Gio Ponti on the turf in the Arlington Million?
There are plenty of places to go Mr. Shireffs, if you open your mind to different challenges. No one is going to discout her lifetime achievements if she tries something different and fails.
Is one more foal THAT important?
Please, be the one that does whats right for the game, let her run one more year, announce the schedule to the world and let the best come and face her or duck her as they see fit.
Posted by Wayne80 Nov 8, 2009 8:11:31 PM
unitas says:
I was surprised and dissapointed to hear that garbage coming from Bailey's mouth. Rachel ducked horses this year? He should have questioned why Zenyatta's connections ducked coming east this summer. Did anyone notice that ABC/ESPN's telecast NEVER mentioned the name RACHEL ALEXANDRA througout the telecast? I wonder why....
Posted by Unitas Nov 8, 2009 8:06:00 PM
owen says:
Mike:
Best runner up for Horse of the Year ever?
I am looking at my framed portrait of Easy Goer.
And I STILL think he was a bett...
(Yup, the great filly/mare debate will still rage on in 2029!)
Posted by Owen Nov 8, 2009 7:51:45 PM
jack says:
On dirt, at a mile and a quarter, no matter who is in the race, Summer Bird would win. HE'S A MONSTER.
Yesterday, he flattened out in the stretch after making the same move he ALWAYS makes coming out of the turn.
CAN YOU SAY PLASTIC?
Summer Bird was only the 10th horse in history to sweep the NY Triple Crown--Belmont, Travers, Gold Cup..
HE WAS THE FIRST TO DO IT WITHOUT RACING AS A 2 YEAR OLD. His first race was on March 1st---8 months and 1 week.
Posted by Jack Nov 8, 2009 7:47:15 PM
jim_allen says:
Talk all you want, Zenyatta proved she is the very best filly of all-time. Her record substantiates that comment. Anybody who thinks RA copuld beat her at a mile and a quarter is fooling themselves.
Posted by Jim Allen Nov 8, 2009 7:17:23 PM
andy_scoggin says:
Steve,
THANKS for that original jockey challenge clarification about the field. That was the only reason I made the bet!
Posted by Andy Scoggin Nov 8, 2009 7:13:23 PM
mark says:
The whining about the surface is nothing new. Remember when the California tracks were "jet strips" or "too fast" when they were dirt? Excuses about the surface is the oldest line in the game. Actually most California trainers and horseman don't like the polytrack but they leave the whining to the east coast guys.
Posted by mark Nov 8, 2009 6:11:11 PM
mike says:
The number of Grade 1 races the horses in the classic had one does not make it a great field. Why? Well if the handicap division as a whole has a down year, somebody still has to win the Grade 1 races that are held every year. No matter how weak a handicap division is, somebody still has to win the numerous Grade 1 races that are held throughout the year. That led us to a field full of "Grade 1" winners from the past year. Not to mention a number of those horses where racing on a surface that is not their prefferred surface. Compare this field to the field Curlin beat two years ago and tell me this was not an average field at best. All year everybody talked about how weak the handicap division was this year, yet Zenyetta beats them and suddenly it is not weak? That is just a statement that is convenient to Zenyetta supporters.
When looking at the classic, compare it to the fields Rachel have faced. Rachel demolished Summer Bird in the Haskell. Rachel went through suicidal fractions to hold off Macho Again, a horse who beat Einstein in the Stephen Foster. All Zenyetta did was beat horses Rachel had already crushed, beat a couple of underachievers like Colonel John, beat turf horses who where transferred to synthetic and beat a couple of overrated Europeans. It was an average field for a race the caliber of the Breeders Cup.
Posted by Mike Nov 8, 2009 5:33:15 PM
richp says:
I've had two good years playing the breeders cup at SA. I don't particularily like synthethics, but they're playable if you think of them as a third surface. Certain traners and bloodlines do well on them...
That said I'll be glad they'll be back at Churhill amd Belmont the next two years.
Posted by RichP Nov 8, 2009 5:00:34 PM
cigarvacation says:
Karma is a tremendous thing.Especially in horse racing! That's exactly what the owner of Quality Road deserves after taking the horse from James Jerkens whom had clearly done nothing wrong...
Posted by cigarvacation Nov 8, 2009 4:50:59 PM
paul_s says:
On Capital OTB land TV - i.e. Saratoga - this Sunday morning, most of the local handicappers were touting Zenyatta as HOY, greatest of all time, blahblah, while on NYRA circuit, those guys were still in Rachel's corner. So, I'm wondering, Steven... as an esteemed member of "The Media," do you have any thoughts/feedback on this?? How well do you know these guys actually?? Thanks for any feedback.
[Paul: Don't quite get what kind of feedback you're looking for. It's a close call and there are plenty of smart, thoughtful people -- as well as plenty of less smart and less thoughtful people -- on both sides of the debate.]
Posted by Paul S Nov 8, 2009 3:35:58 PM
burt says:
Steve is there a co-incidence that two big lone tickets the last week were in a small Lewiston Maine hub. The pick six and the big pick 7 at pocono which looked very tough but had two winners both through the Lewiston Maine hub
[Burt: Lewiston may be small but that hub handles some very big online/offshore bettors.]
Posted by burt Nov 8, 2009 2:50:26 PM
cjdstable says:
First pick 4 yesterday: chalk x chalk x all x all -- $117 wager returns $36k. I know this goes against Steve's teachings, but Im just sayin. . .
As for Z, I emailed friends after watching her first level allowance win that I have never, ever seen a horse move so quickly and effortlessly by a field of horses as Z did that day. Watch the video replay if you have not seen it. Im glad to see what a superhorse she has become.
Posted by cjdstable Nov 8, 2009 2:38:12 PM
mike says:
Rachel had an awesome season and Zenyatta's was even better...If RA beats Zen for HOY, the award is a sham, meaningless -- quite like a Baseball Hall of Fame that is without the game's all time hits leader.
And co-horses of the year is silly and lame. Like giving all the boys in the Little League a trophy...RA should go down as a great filly and the best ever runner-up HOY.
Posted by Mike Nov 8, 2009 2:25:13 PM
mordicai says:
Did anyone hear Bailey's comment - Rachel ducked the Traver's field(which she already beat a couple times) by running in the Woodward.
I thought he was smarter.
The performance no one is talking about is Summer Bird, he ran fourcth on a surface he probably hates, wonder what he would have done on dirt?
Posted by mordicai Nov 8, 2009 2:19:17 PM
wayne80 says:
A guy next to me made a comment that Z reminded him of Forego in running style and size, and I had to agree.
She is a great mare on whatever surface, I will leave HOY to others since in truth it means absolutely nothing, not like they are going to stud.
Posted by Wayne80 Nov 8, 2009 2:03:31 PM
mark says:
Anyone who watches all of Zenyattas races will see that she basically toys with her competitors for a while then puts them away with a finishing kick that no horse on the planet can compete with. Mike Smith just sits there waiting for the one race where they need to put it all out and it never came. She ran maybe her best race on dirt too. Amazing that some still can't aknowledge her greatness.
Posted by Mark Nov 8, 2009 1:39:53 PM
bryan says:
Four things:
1. I also caught Jerry Baileys comment nabout Rachael ducking competition...it sounded more like sour grapes because ESPN then couldnt cover the Woodward the following weekend. Only two horses from the Travers still made the BC...and one didn't make the race because of his "juvenille delinquincy" God I loved that quote from Bramlage:) How tough a race is on paper and how tough it is in real life is a matter of opinion only.
2. The unsung hero award of yesterday clearly goes to that assistant starter who did not let go of Quality Road when he broke through the gate blindfolded....as that could have been an absolute catastrophe. This man deserves an award and recognition for what he and all the assistant starters go through on a daily basis.
3. Ok...I think the horse Eclipse would roll over in his grave if this was suggested...but why not just split the HOY title between RA and Zenyatta. There is no way to compare them...and they have both accomplished great things in their own right and attracted new fans to the sport. As loud and raucaus the crowd was at SA when Zenyatta won...it was just as amazing at Saratoga when RA won. Until they race each other...one will never know...and for all they have done for the sport...just split the award and get it over with. They sometimes split golden glove awards or other things...why not this. Everyone says that RA is only a 9furlong horse...but until she races past that we will never know. What I do know is this....in the Preakness and Woodward (the two races where horses were closing on her in a hurry) after the wire not ONE horse passed her in the gallop out...and even Robby Albarado on Macho Again said that he was not going to pass her in there stretch of the Woodward....so we have no idea what RA would have done had Zenyatta come to her in that flourish of hers....maybe she would run right by...and maybe RA would dig in and hold her off. Or maybe the ultimate justice would prevail and they would dead heat. But there I go again...being (as Jack Whittaker so poinently spoke) one of "the most sentimental people...in the most unsentimental of sports."
4. I also agree that most of the EPSN coverage was shaky at best. I don't understand why it seems so hard to comment on every horse in a field aside from the post parade...and also maybe show a prep race or two to let the fans see these horses in other races. Some of the camera angles are cool they use..but should be used in replays only...as the constant switching required me to have some dramamine to enjoy the races. And finally...would it kill the crew to show a replay of a race or stretch drive...ohhh...within a half hour of the race being completed. It seemed all they cared about was waiting till they could do their cool little computer thingy with the circles under the horses for the replay. And finally...thank God two individuals saved the day for that telecast. The first was Zenyatta...and the second was good ole Muttonchops!!!! It is not the Breeders Cup without that man!!!!
Posted by Bryan Nov 8, 2009 1:01:18 PM
sun_in_action says:
why do so many people in todays culture feel they must measure, label, and compare almost everything (and do so instantly)?
horse of the year is just a label and regardless of who "wins" that title it won't diminish from what both rachel alexandra and zenyata accomplished.
Posted by sun in action Nov 8, 2009 12:13:39 PM
mike says:
As was said, Rachel is a three year old and I see no reason why next year she wont be able to handle the classic distance. Sure this year she was tired at the end of the Whitney, but the pace she was put through in that race was near suicidal so she had the right to be tired after that race. I expect a bigger, stronger Rachel next year who will be even more dominant and show everybody what a true great racehorse looks like.
P.S. With the pace structure in this years Classic, its a shame Rachel did not race, she would have controlled the pace and won by five, too bad.
Posted by Mike Nov 8, 2009 11:14:56 AM
thehoarsehorseplayer says:
Looking over Dancing in Silks pps this morning, I'm wondering if he first appeared on the track as a gelding before his August 14th race, which would make him still undefeated as a gelding.
Seems like the type of information inquiring minds would want to know. It is also my understanding that California now requires new geldings to be announced at the time of entry; so there seems little reason this information, can't be incorporated into the past performances.
Since the "sex" of horses gets changed to gelding in the top line of the breeding section, I don't understand why the same information can't be presented in the main body of the Past Performances as a 'first appeared on track as a gelding' notification line before the appropriate race.
Posted by thehoarsehorseplayer Nov 8, 2009 10:33:23 AM
pru says:
HOY will be a much debated topic for the next two months, but glad to see that racing had a good day. Minor incident with QR, but they made the right decision and hopefully Pletcher will have some sense to shoot for Cigar/Met Mile instead of going long routes. Didn't think Zenyatta was all that good, but clearly she showed it and you have to respect her. At the end of they day, do you vote for a horse that was prepping for the big one on plastic or the horse that danced every dance at every major track? Mike Smith must have learned something about being fanned into the parking lot all these years when he was able to come up the rail then angle out in the stretch. Kudos to him. Thankfully, my dad and I had a nice win bet on Vale of York and we were profitable for the BC. Lastly, Sea the Stars record doesn't look so good any more.
Posted by Pru Nov 8, 2009 10:20:01 AM
ak says:
I play the New York tracks, but on a day like yesterday you have to put aside any bias you have as to preferred surface and just play in those inflated pools. As a fan, I would like to see the races decided on traditional dirt. But as a horse player, I am really only looking at how I can get the money no matter what surface they are running on.
Posted by AK Nov 8, 2009 9:49:47 AM
tony_ says:
Kudos goes to the person who decided to scratch Quality Road . I was really worried we were going to see another disaster in front of Millions of people again .
Then ZENYATTA comes out with a performance no one will ever forget .
The BC on this surface was a total drag a handicapping night mare . But that sure was something to see and it should help the sport .....Thanks to ESPN for at least giving us the coverage .......
Posted by tony Nov 8, 2009 9:42:58 AM
evan_gewirtz says:
Last year after the BC I said that any owner or trainer that is foolish enough to send their dirt horse to race on the synthetifarce in the 09BC will deserve precisely what they get- a very disapointing finish.
After two years of evidence, my use of the term "foolish" was way to euphemistic to describe the owners or trainers that sent their dirt horses to race on the synththetifarce.
As a horseplayer and horseowner I love horseracing and I think the BC board of directors should be ashamed of themselves for aiding and abetting the purveyors of synthetic surfaces in the promotion of those surfaces. By holding racing's biggest day on these fake surfaces for two years in a row they have succeeded in cheapening the significance of the BC and managed to subsidize European racing. Please don't take that to mean that I have anything against European racing. They love the sport as well and deserve to have championship races as well. However, when a European racetrack conducts 14 championship races exclusively on dirt and gives away 20+ million, at that point, we should consider holding championship races in the US on the synthetifarce again.
On a positive note, what a performance by Zenyatta! I don't know how you can deny either RA or Z HOY this year.
Posted by Evan Gewirtz Nov 8, 2009 9:42:47 AM
ripbuke242 says:
All of the commentary about the validity of the synthetics leads to a necessary solution that I haven't heard yet discussed: The Breeder's Cup should now be run at two tracks and should have seperate dirt & synthetic races. It's a logistical nightmare that'll never happen, but in the spirit of true "World Championships", it's the only logical solution. There's no way that a horse like Music Note or Summer Bird should be out of it before the gates even open just because of the surface. This is the effective equivalent of requiring dirt horses to run on turf. How about an "all Kentucky" Breeder's Cup, Closing Day at Keeneland and opening day at Churchill?
That rant out of the way, if Summer Bird returns next year, look out. This is one serious animal...
Posted by ripbuke242 Nov 8, 2009 9:18:23 AM
beyou says:
I wagered all of $30 on the Cup races is year which is, of course, much less than I normally would have thrown in. I just wasn't interested in betting the Pro Ride.
As for the HOTY debate, I am still with Rachel. Yes, Zenyatta did beat the boys, but I think that the outcome could have been different had the Classic been run on dirt. Maybe Summer Bird shows up and it is quite telling to me when the best turf horse in the country runs in what should be a dirt race. Plus, I much prefer the way Rachel was campaigned this year - - a total of seven different race tracks and what happened when Monmouth came up sloppy on Haskell-day? Her connections ran her anyway. Contrast that with Zenyatta who ran only in California and only on synthetics. And when they did ship her to Churchill, they scratched her because the track wasn’t pristine. Plus, to my mind, 8 for 8 is more impressive than 5 for 5 for 2009 especially given the manner in which the two horses were campaigned as touched on above.
So, congrats to Zenyatta and her connections - - she is truly one for the ages. But Rachel was more dazzling to me this year.
And finally, did anyone catch Jerry Bailey’s comment that Rachel had ducked a harder race when her connections put her in The Woodward over The Travers? That just seems silly to me.
Posted by beyou Nov 8, 2009 8:50:54 AM
christopher_ says:
Hi Steve I just want to say THANK YOU for creating Ticketmaster for Formulator. It was because of that application I was able to have a BAAB combination in Friday's BC Late Pick 4 for $2,100+ and was alive to 5 horses in Saturday's Pick 4 but of course did not have Zenyatta. With good handicapping, Ticketmaster helps complete a horseplayer. Sorry for being corny but from my experience this weekend it's true!
Posted by Christopher Nov 8, 2009 8:23:36 AM
mike says:
Hey GK_Wisc,
Know this from my time in the ADW business. Believe you can use IRS Form 5754 to prepare Form W-2G when divvying up the winnings. Here are links to IRS instructions for Forms W-2G - http://ftp.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw2g.pdf and to actual Form 5754 - http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5754.pdf. IRS doesn't deserve any of it but such is life.
Steve, your blog is best in racing. Enjoyed a nice cocktail as well after a long day at races. Bumped into owner of Better Talk Now who was doing same. There is still some upside to making it out to the track.
Couldn't help thinking how much greater Classic would have been had Zenyatta been trying to run down Rachael Alexandra instead of Gio Ponti and Twice Over. Crowd roar during stretch run was thrilling but nothing compared to noise level if Rachael had been in front. HOY argument aside, artificial surface has created another division in American thoroughbred racing. Just what the sport/game needed.
Posted by Mike Nov 8, 2009 7:33:19 AM
dave says:
ESPN camera angles SUX !! ESPN comedy shows SUX!!
ESPN and the producers of the BC show should be spanked. Can anyone here honestly say that the viewing was better than an OTB split screen ???
ON HOY....wrap it in PLASTIC!!
Posted by Dave Nov 8, 2009 7:28:51 AM
jim says:
Steve,
Two bets in breeders cup: Piscitelli and Presious Passion. I had a feeling the 4 furlong move on Piscitelli may have been wrong so I did my research thru DRF and low and behold the official credit was 39 and change. Presious was my Northeast Bound of 2009. Imagine the cup in 2010 on dirt at CD. All these races! I love it now!
Posted by jim Nov 8, 2009 6:25:52 AM
pat says:
The Hank Goldberg "The Hammer" segment showed a phone number of 860-516-3571. Looks like it was taped on Thursday, November 5 at 4:05 p.m. because you can also see the date and time stamp on the phone. The 860 area code is a Bristol, CT, one.
Posted by Pat Nov 8, 2009 4:46:39 AM
stephen says:
Mike, what planet do you live on-this was not an ordinary field. The Horses in this race won a total of Seventeen grade 1 races in the states and Europe. Zenyatta BEAT THE BEST. How many grade 1,s did the fields in the Haskell or the Woodward win?
Posted by Stephen Nov 8, 2009 4:15:09 AM
walt_p says:
I should have said in the last post:
"Even if it were necessary for Hollywood Park to drop any" of the other stakes noted in the last post.
Posted by Walt P. Nov 8, 2009 4:09:23 AM
walt_p says:
There is one way to me Zenyatta can truly prove she is Horse of the Year:
The Mosses and the TOC should lobby Hollywood Park to reinstate the Hollywood Turf Cup (Grade 1) for this year and schedule it as an invitation at it's traditional 1 1/2 Mile distance on turf on Saturday, December 5, even if it were to me Hollywood Park would have to drop the Matriarch and/or Ciatation and/or Hollywood Derby from their Autumn Turf Festival Thanksgiving Weekend OR drop the Hollywood Starlet and/or Hollywood Futurity to make it happen so the Hollywood Turf Cup can be run as a $1 Million Invitational. That purse probably would be enough to get a rematch of Zenyatta and Gio Ponti on turf at 1 1/2 Miles, with if Zenyatta wins that race THEN there being no question at all she deserves HOY.
This is why by the way if I had Rachel, I would have pointed Rachel after the Woodward for the BC Turf by going first in the Jamaica (Grade 1) at Belmont October 10 to see if she could handle the grass. If that was answered, I would then have had her in the 1 1/2 Mile BC Turf to shut up her critics, as I think Rachel could have ignored Precious Passion, let PP do his thing for the first mile, then come after him, take over and hold off Conduit in the stretch to take the BC Turf and HOY before Zenyatta even went in the Classic.
It's too bad someone like Donald Trump or Jerry Jones isn't involved in racetrack ownership, as I could have seen one of them perhaps try and put together a $1-2 Million race in early December to at least get Zenyatta and Gio Ponti in a rematch on turf to truly decide HOY.
Posted by Walt P. Nov 8, 2009 4:08:06 AM
samg says:
For the second year in a row the best horse in the classic finished 4th beaten by two turf horses and a synth specialist.I hope this is the last time the dunderheads who run the breeders cup put us through such a farce.
Posted by SamG Nov 8, 2009 3:34:24 AM
grassland says:
As Mike Smith said, "Zenyatta might be the horse of the decade". However, because of the extremely conservative campaign mapped out by her connections, she never had the opportunity to prove that. I am a huge Zenyatta fan but looking at things objectively, the 2009 body of work for Zenyatta simply does not stack up to what Rachel accomplished. Zenyatta might very well beat her if they met on the track, especially given the right pace scenario, but HOY should be based on overall accomplishments during the year. Do we really want to encourage taking the easiest possible path to the Breeders' Cup by rewarding such a campaign and a win in the BC with HOY? Racing needs more owners like Jess Jackson who are willing to test their champions...that is the essence of sport and it should be rewarded.
Posted by Grassland Nov 8, 2009 3:03:21 AM
john says:
People don't understand how difficult it was to run the Kentucky Derby this year. Pioneer of the Nile and other horses who ran that race were so weakened it ultimately finished their careers. General Quarters is still injured and others are still recovering. Rachel Alexandra chose to avoid that race. Thus, she was healthy when she beat the horses weakened by the Derby. Yes, they visually ran a good Preakness, but the wear and tear was there inside those colts. If you study Rachel's campaign, it was masterfully crafted. Who did she beat, Macho Again? I made money betting him, but he has to be placed right to win Grade 1 races. Please, she never raced 1 1/4 mile!! That last 1/16 matters. She won't dare run next year at a Classic distance because then it will be discovered that the pundits wrongly denied Zenyatta HOY. Rachel, please try to win the Breeders Cup next year at Churchill. You are stabled there and you workout there. No excuses girl. I promise you, they won't run Rachel at Classic distance next year. Just watch.
Posted by John Nov 8, 2009 2:38:49 AM
mark says:
I was standing right by the finish line when Zenyatta wizzed by. I don't recall ever jumping as high off the ground as I did, but there were old ladys and old men jumping off the ground. It will always be the greatest horse race of my time. Thank you Zenyatta for being such a great champion! We will miss you but always remember you from the moment you crossed the finish line in the BC Classic!
Posted by Mark Nov 8, 2009 2:21:47 AM
jonathon says:
The Quality Road fiasco set me back about $400 on the pick 4 with all of those tickets getting transferred to Zenyatta as the post time favorite.....why do I have to be penalized for not using a horse that is scratched late??? I am more in favor of a consolation pk4 in that case rather than just giving them the post time favorite. I capped my races and didn't use QR and saw my PK4 payoff go from over $1100 to $750, what a shame and the people who used QR...more than likely also used Zenyatta and got it twice!?!?! Something needs to be done Steve!!!!
Posted by Jonathon Nov 8, 2009 12:37:00 AM
cigar_xvi says:
It was like taking candy today and yesterday if you just eliminated all the Euros - many highly fancied - not running on Lasix. Lillie Langtry, Junia Tepzia, Viscount Nelson, Zacinto, Mastercraftsman, Rip Van Winkle -- all sans Lasix, all well-bet, all out of the trifecta. Would love to know more about what drove those medication decisions.
Posted by Cigar XVI Nov 8, 2009 12:03:20 AM
jeff_tatus says:
Rachel is an extremely talented 3 YEAR Old and Zenyatta is a 5 YEAR old professional race horse that stands 17.5 Hands tall. Zenyatta can do anything she seeks to do if she has a target to run at. Rachel is only three and has a great deal ahead of her but she will never be a Mile and a quarter horse.
Zenyatta's victory today was historical and created a lot of new fans and made all her fans happy. I just thank God that all you East Coast guys can finally have the BC back on dirt....
Posted by Jeff Tatus Nov 7, 2009 11:55:41 PM
mike says:
I am just putting this race into perspective, it was a wonderful performance for Zenyetta, but it was not an all-time great performance...People throwing it around as one of the greatest performances of all-time, I mean seriously, it was a very average field for the Breeders Cup Classic that was run in a very average time. Thats all I'm saying. Zenyetta may be the great, but she is the second best this year and this race did not change that.
Posted by Mike Nov 7, 2009 11:46:07 PM
c says:
Would it have killed TVG to cycle through the Daily Double probables?
Posted by C Nov 7, 2009 11:32:35 PM
spectacularbid says:
zenyatta is a special mare as are all who retire undefeated with more than 7 races. the field she beat would have been top class had it been run on dirt or turf. it was not. there was not a single top class poly horse in the field. the victory is significant as part of a great career but not nearly enough to beat out rachel alexandra for horse of the year. i was very impressed with goldikova in victory and lookin at lucky and presious passion in defeat. i never bet santa anita (or any other poly track) and i have no understanding of the length of the stretch, but i had a $10 exacta box on noble's promise and piscitelli in the juvenile and must have screamed wire at least a dozen times in the last 1/16th.
Posted by spectacularbid Nov 7, 2009 11:28:22 PM
c says:
"...besides SB,who only managed 4th today"
But on what surface? This is not dirt. Just look at who ran 2nd and 3rd and how dirt horses fared over the last 2 years on the main track. Today, Ready's Echo became the first and only horse to run as well as 2nd.
Comparing Rachel and Zenyatta is apples to oranges. It is no different than comparing the best dirt runner to the best turf runner. Same difference.
Posted by C Nov 7, 2009 11:24:50 PM
mickey says:
Steve:
Have you ever played a P6 the following way?
Lets say someone today really really loved a few singles.
Zenyatta, Goldikova, Conduit. (3 past BC winners, all getting support today as well).
so you would have had a:
9x13x1x10x1x1 1,170 combo's
for a $2,340 investment. Obviously on a day like today it paid off..but have you ever done something like this?
I read your book recently and it seemed this would be a taboo type of play. Now I personally wasn't in love with all 3 (actually I didn't even use Conduit)..but I can see that someone could have easily made a case for all 3 of them.
Posted by Mickey Nov 7, 2009 11:23:43 PM
gk_wisc says:
Steve thanks thanks again, your wisdom and your book are special. We just hit the 5 of 6 pick 6 and did it with your great A B C system. Nice! Now the question again... 6 of us threw in $100 and put in our tickets for the pick 6. We hit it for the conso of 4822 and I am wondering how we do the taxes?? Is there an easy way to figure it? Subtract?? what? and then pay each other? Love it if you could let us know.
More importantly thanks again and keep up your awesome insights. Thanks and have a great night. G in Wisc.
Posted by gk_wisc Nov 7, 2009 11:13:43 PM
lorenzo says:
P.S. I beleive Z got her last quarter in under 23. breezing!!!!
Posted by Lorenzo Nov 7, 2009 11:03:45 PM
matthew says:
Synthetic players don't bitch nearly as much as dirt players... can't we all just get along?
And if you consider yourself a horse player, handicapper, or fan...why not embrace change and do your homework for the races?
Not gonna get into the HOY stuff.. but how about this for the JOCKEY bet next year...
Maybe there could be individual betting interests per jockey and an ALL field, like this year.. but maybe have a couple of separate betting interests where you 'group' jockeys.. maybe a EURO group, a West Coast group, etc... spice it up.
Posted by Matthew Nov 7, 2009 11:00:34 PM
george_quinn says:
Jerry Moss has more class in his pinky than exists on the entire ESPN property. And it shows. I have blogged how much I hate plastic. But my hat is off to Zenyatta. Anyones that is who's hat is not off, is not facing reality. She is one tough customer. If I had a vote, I would vote for Rachel. But look what Rachel had to do to get it. We were lucky this year to have them both. All the match race banter has now subsided and we are left with a filly year like none I can remember. And yes I remember 1975. Even better than that. Thanks Zenyatta, thanks Rachel, Thanks Jerry and Ann Moss. Thanks for the memories.
George in Tampa
Posted by george quinn Nov 7, 2009 10:59:56 PM
lorenzo says:
WHO CARES WHO GETS HOY. THIS WAS ONE GREAT DAY FOR HORSE RACING. THANK YOU SANTA ANITA
Posted by Lorenzo Nov 7, 2009 10:59:10 PM
rond says:
In the 46 years that I have attended races, Zenyattas win today was the most amazing and exciting victory that I have ever witnessed in the sport of Kings...Thanks Steve for all that you do for horse racing. With your commentary and DRF formulator, you have mde me a consistant winner.
Posted by Ron-d Nov 7, 2009 10:53:59 PM
_kyracer says:
paul says:
...Zen was sent to Churchill, but scratched because of a muddy track...
Paul,
Zenyatta was sent to Churchill, but scratched six hours before post time because her connections "thought" the track would be muddy. The track was actually rated good at post time with the winner going 1 1/16 miles in 1:42 3/5. Why are the Zenyatta backers so quick to castigate Jess Jackson for not running on the "plastic" surface, but have no problem with Zenyatta scratching because the track might not be exactly as they would prefer it? Don't punish one if you're not going to punish the other.
Posted by KyRacer Nov 7, 2009 10:36:53 PM
cigarvacation says:
Huge Rachel fan here, always liked Zenyatta too but thought her connections did her a great disservice based on this year's campaign. It's too bad that one of the two has to lose HOY this year. Is there any way in the world there could be co-champions ? It's a pretty pointless debate as to whom deserves it more because in the 35 years I have been following the sport I can't ever recall 2 Grade I horses with the resume that both of them have in the same calendar year. Too bad there wasn't a national governing body for horse racing to take the HOY category away from the voters this year and declare co-champions.
Posted by cigarvacation Nov 7, 2009 10:32:24 PM
mike says:
This was the most exciting horse race I have ever watched. This race will get so many new fans into the sport that see it.
Posted by mike Nov 7, 2009 10:28:22 PM
ryan says:
Are people really comparing the 10f turf time to the 10f classic time?? Just a ridiculous idea. And in comparing this year's classic time to last years, Mr. Crist has said that the synthetic track has been slower this year and the turf has been faster.
Posted by Ryan Nov 7, 2009 10:23:09 PM
pat_hobby says:
The usual whining about the surface prevails I see...
Posted by Pat Hobby Nov 7, 2009 10:16:53 PM
virgin_queen says:
mike,
although it was a good win 4 Z and a great betting race,it was still a weak field in general,Z big win was not as fast as a race run on the turf at the same distance a day b4.
let me say from jump street i'm a RA fan and would still give the HOY 2 her.but i don't believe RA faced the level of competition that Z faced 2 day.as far as not running as fast as a race run at the same distance on turf yesterday,let me clue u in dude, against that same field, Z would knock thier dick-string loose.
Posted by Virgin Queen Nov 7, 2009 10:06:24 PM
lou16w says:
Who else can transform a great skill game like horse race handicapping, into a lottery, only the suits that run horse racing today and the BC can do that,they succeeded by running championship races on fake plastic and recycled tires, all the results on the plastic today are fake.
Posted by lou16w Nov 7, 2009 9:54:09 PM
cayman01 says:
I know the HOY arguments are going to rage now. I wish the Moss/Sherriffs connections had not been so conservative with Zenyatta. She's the best horse to come along in quite some time. She beat the best field assembled anywhere this year. The only horse that was missing was Sea the Stars. Co-HOY seems like a good idea.
The NEXT best horse besides RA and Z has to be California Flag. The only race he's lost in the last year and a half was last year's BC Sprint and that was because he hooked up with Mr Nightlinger ( who NEVER recovered from that race) and went 20.3 and 41.4 for the first half mile. Nobody has come close to beating him in any of his other races. he found his niche in turf sprinting and should be acknowledged as Sprinter of the Year.
Posted by cayman01 Nov 7, 2009 9:52:21 PM
bobm_toga says:
here is what happens when you run the breeders cup on this junk they call pro-ride..
there were 7 races run on so-called dirt, including the dirt? mile and not including the silly marathon race..
every single winner was a synthetic specialist except for vale of york, a turf horse from overseas.. you had the following..
1. she be wild.. 4 for 5 on the poly
2. informed decision.. 8 for 8..
3. life is swett.. 4 for 5 at santa anita, only loss to zenyatta at this track.
4. dancing silks.. 3 in a row on the poly..
5. furthest land.. 3 for 3 on the poly..
6. zenyatta.. undeafeated for career on the poly..
the following top caliber dirt horses decided to test the poly even though last year showed it doesnt work.. here is how they did..
1. devil may care ran 11th out of 12 in the filly juvenile.
2. sara louise 4th in the filly sprint, struggled all the way if you watch closely.
3. seventh street 8th out of 9 in the filly sprint.
4. game face 9th and last in the filly sprint.
5. music note 3rd in the ladies classic. ran very unevenly and in spurts. never comfortable.
6. careless jewel dead last at 2-1. remember her good figs were all on dirt
7. capt candyman 8th of 9 in the sprint..
8. eskendereya 9th of 13 in the juvenile.
9. aspire 12th of 13 in juvenile.
10. d funnybone 13th and last in the juvenile.
11. bullsbay 9th out of 10 in the mile.
12. pyro 10th and dead last in the mile..
13. girolamo dead last in the classic.
14. finally summer bird. who finished a non threatening 4th in the classic, interestingly the same position that curlin finished last year.. maybe summer bird will be the real deal next year on dirt.. !!!
i sincerely wish that they never run a breeders cup on this surface again...
i did okay on the day by finally wising up and playing furthest land and cashed a nice $1700 pick 3..
however the day is just not the same when it is run on poly.. not even close..
Posted by bobm toga Nov 7, 2009 9:25:31 PM
david says:
Mike,
Dude, different surfaces, different pace scenarios, AND the first quarter mile is run downhill in the Filly and Mare Turf. How is that a legitimate comparison?
Posted by David Nov 7, 2009 9:19:39 PM
pete_m says:
Jess Jackson let his ego get in the way of doing the right thing by his filly and the right thing by the sport. The BC decides championships..Zenyatta wowed the crowd and more importantly the sport
(which needed it badly). Zenyatta is HOY, it is really simple..she showed up on the biggest day, and created the greatest moment in BC history. Special mention to the Moss's and John Sheriff for being so fan friendly during her amazing campaign.
Posted by Pete M Nov 7, 2009 9:13:14 PM
paul says:
...Zen was sent to Churchhill, but scratched because of a muddy track. Also, her most visually impressive race before today was actually her G1 DIRT race last year. Both girls deserve praise, but one beat three year olds and a grade 3 caliber older field, and one just one the Breeders Cup Classic. Case closed.
Posted by paul Nov 7, 2009 9:07:51 PM
eric_rickard says:
are you kidding me? Does any serious horse fan actually think that Rachel alexander could beat this field at this distance. She is a 9 f horse. And as for dirt, Zenyata destroyed the champion Ginger punch in the Apple blossom. And as for the slow time, synthetics are slower than conventiomal tracks. I love Rachel but Zenyata does not loose.
Posted by Eric Rickard Nov 7, 2009 9:07:48 PM
_kyracer says:
Zenyatta was awesome today, simply a tremendous performance for her and her connections. That said, one win over colts on your home (synthetic) track is not enough to equal:
Runaway winner of the Ky. Oaks and the Mother Goose (breaking Ruffian's record for margin of victory in the latter.
First filly to win the Preakness in 86 years.
Second filly to ever win the Haskell.
First filly to ever win the Woodward.
Posted by KyRacer Nov 7, 2009 8:58:37 PM
seeking_the_gold says:
The gods smiled upon me with the late scratch of quality road. had zenyatta out of everything and got moved to the post time favorite. Became her biggest fan in the span of one minute.
Posted by Seeking the Gold Nov 7, 2009 8:51:52 PM
arcstats says:
New York based horses managed to win only one Breeders Cup race in the past two years (Maram for Chad Brown LY). Granted the plastic track had to play a major role for the dismal results, but if this trend continues for the next two years, one can say with confidence that the NY Breds and unlimted turf sprints will define the New York product. Who'd a thunk it would ever come to this?
Posted by Arcstats Nov 7, 2009 8:50:07 PM
dc says:
Who in the world believes the horse with the fastest time is the best horse???? If that was all there was to horse racing all you'd have to do is have them run around the track by themselves and time them......hahaha!! Ridiculous...
Posted by dc Nov 7, 2009 8:49:40 PM
About
Steven Crist has been the Publisher and a columnist for Daily Racing Form since 1998. Previously, he covered racing for The New York Times from 1981-1990; was founding editor-in-chief of The Racing Times in 1991-92; and a vice-president of the New York Racing Association from 1994-97. He recently released an instructional DVD titled "Exotic Tickets," and is the
author of several books including "Betting on Myself" and "Exotic Betting."
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